unwilling bitch during mating

Question
QUESTION: Hiya
Quick history here: been in GSD's for 30 some years, bred shown and rescued them and Beagles. I am a very hands on breeder.
A friend who has another kennel is bringing her 3 year old bitch to be mated to my stud (sired 1 litter before), She is extrememly tetchy. Snarls, snaps and is generally not keen atall. We have tried holding her muzzle and the dog has almost got in but because she is dancing about at the rear end, so far it has not been very successful. I am not one for a forced mating as i have seen bad results and normally it is the stud that suffers. WHat would you advise. My stud does not ind me poking about but he is one that likes to romance and he isnt getting a chance to give her kisses etc. I was thinking of using a bale of woodshavings to enable my use of two hands down the business end and also muzzling her. I dont want to put her off anymore than she already is. Also, she is NOW on her 17th day, still turning and flagging but is not keen on them touching her. She is a very spoilt bitch too though so this may be a contributing factor. Any advise will be gratefully recieved.
THank you
Carolyne

ANSWER: Hi Carolyne:

It sounds as if you're doing everything within reason. Like you, I'm not a big fan of forced breedings as I feel there's usually an underlying issue if this is necessary. In my experience, if a bitch refuses to allow mating yet she's truly in estrus & reasonable measures are being taken to allow mating to occur, I've often seen that once she's impregnated, either by a forced breeding or via A.I., she often doesn't make for a good mother & I've even encountered such dogs will either reject the litter totally, leaving the work of feeding, stimulating bowel movements & such up to the owner, which is so labor intensive it's beyond words. Also often along with rejecting litters such bitches will actually purposely injure or even eat or horribly maim the puppies. I had an acquaintance in my local dog club who continually bred her GSD yet each litter was rejected & usually eaten when left unsupervised. Out of 3 litters she finally was able to sustain one lone puppy & sadly, the mother had chewed off one of its hind legs so it was not a tremendous success. The owner finally agreed her bitch simply didn't possess the proper temperament and/or mind-set to continue breeding & had her spayed. She soon bought another GSD female puppy from a different line & has had at least two successful litters out of her so far, both with no similar behavior of her other bitch.

Please know I'm not trying to scare you or dissuade you from breeding but I always feel providing all relevant information is crucial to those who are having difficulty in breeding an unwilling bitch. It sounds as if your boy is doing his best to woo her but she simply may not be cut out for motherhood, just as some women aren't. Other than what you're already doing, possibly having another set of hands to help in the process may make things a bit easier and of course there's always going the A.I. route but if I were you, I'd warn the bitch's owner of the possibilities she may face if a pregnancy is successful. Another thought is you may try actually hobbling her hind legs so that she's not able to be as mobile & may allow penetration to occur more easily. Obviously all of this will take a great deal of patience & persistence but it sounds as if you're already quite accustomed to that! A final thought -- I do know of a few breeders who still use the old method of the "turkey baster" which is manually stimulating the male until he's to the point of having no choice but to ejaculate, collecting the semen in a sterile container & then immediately placing it in something akin to a turkey baster & using that to penetrate the female & injecting it vaginally. It obviously doesn't have as great a chance of success as a natural breeding with a tie but extreme circumstances call for extreme measures!
I wish you all the luck in the world & truly hope all turns out well. Please keep me informed & let me know if you have any additional concerns.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so much for this.
Most of my bitches are the normal of 8 to 15 days but this one seems to be an awful late but each bitch to their own as i say, I have even brought my young boy of 10 months out to see if he was excited by her because I was wondering whether my big stud, didnt like her, wasnt capable, having an off day or she wasnt ready and he didnt know etc etc. panic was setting in. I mean, I have done this for 30 years and was starting to doubt my breeding abilities. but my young boy, who you can imagine was like a bull in a china shop, got nowhere with her. I must admit, I did help my big boy along abit tonight, I dont normally have to as he is a true trooper, but with all her growling and snarling and yelping he was a bit put off, so out came the good old hand!!! LOL he di try after that but she was not having it!
He is one for wineing and dineing and pulling at the croup area. but he cant do that with her.
I agree totally with you that when a forced mating occurs, bad things happen. As the owner of this bitch is my best friend and very new to this i think i will advise her that the best thing for this bitch is to leave her. Through experience, forced matings are not good, i witnessed one when i was 8 and swore then i would never resort. Enough pups in the world without forcing the issue. Thank you again for your help. I think I was  needing reassurance on this issue. As I always say you are never to old to learn or ask for advise. Thank you so much and good luck with all your endeavours
Peace Cazz

ANSWER: You're very welcome! And I truly empathize with the situation. When friends get involved in the picture it can be quite complicated. Poor little guy, I can just picture him not knowing what to do with all these newly discovered hormones running rampant through his body! I've always had the best luck with my dogs & have never had significant difficulty & certainly hope I never do! However, like you, I've seen some terrible scenarios & can never understand those who feel because they love their girl she simply MUST have puppies, whether or not she agrees & complies! As you said, the horrors of such incidents can be profound & I fear many truly don't know all the possible risks that could be encountered. You might send the following link to your friend to help explain the situation -- it's really earthy but might help her to realize nature takes its own course & it can often be a very un-pretty one! I know I used to have a much better one & if I run across it I'll send it to you. It's REALLY graphic & truly discusses ALL the possibilities one may encounter in breeding.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=106&A=2084&S=0

P.S. Carolyne -- this is the link I want you to share with your friend (I knew it was around here somewhere!) As I said, it's very graphic in language but oh-so-true & should be read by ANYONE interested in breeding because it CAN happen! Please let me know your thoughts on this.

http://www.minschnauzer.com/breeding/index.html

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: By the way...forgot to say . The links were good and I will pass them to Susan. Thank you again for you help in this matter. you put my mind at ease and confirmed what I was already thinking. Thanks again. Peace Cazz

Answer
Hi Cazz:

Thanks for the thanks! LOL I tried the site you listed but was unable to view it -- I got the error message "This account has exceeded it's bandwidth quota and has been temporarily disabled." Whatever the heck THAT means! But I have it saved so hopefully I can access it in the future.
I'll be hoping for the beat for you, your friend and everyone's dogs! Maybe with any luck her girl will have a change of heart & accept breeding as well as make a picture perfect mother. I truly hope this is the case! Again, I appreciate your thoughts & please don't hesitate to contact me in the future if you should ever need a sounding board. If you don't want to bother with going through this site feel free to email me personally at GroovyDA@aol.com. And I'd LOVE to see some photos of your dogs/puppies! I had to truly LOL at your description of cooking dinner while dealing with hand raising the litter & having four encased in your bra! Although I know it was really a sad scenario at least you still have your sense of humor which is SO important, especially in times like that! Please keep in touch -- I really enjoy your personality & we seem to share many of the same ideals. I just had a litter of 5 born on October 2nd so I'm obviously stuck pretty close to home for the most part. Of course now that they're getting to the more mobile stage my real work will begin! Thank Goodness it's a labor of love because no matter how many times I try to convince people I don't make a profit breeding & actually consider it a major coup if I manage to break even they rarely believe me! Anyway, all my best & hope to hear from you soon.