Raw food & GSD G.I. Track

Question
QUESTION: Hi and thank you in advance...My 4yr old German/Dutch Shepherd cross is suffering from loose stools to diarreah (since july approx.) as well as inhalant allergies (started Oct. 1st when the heat went on).  He was treated with tylicine for his GI track for 20 days to no avail.  He has been a bit better but his bowel has not fully recovered.  He has no symptoms related to thyroid, pancreas etc.  No excessive urination, no weight loss, he is not a piggy, actually he has the eating habits of a fussy feline.  He is on a LID of potato & duck since feb. to try and rule out food allergy, he did fine on this until july.  I think he may have toxicosis from "weed out" after visiting a friend who applied this a few days befor (I could still smell the product even though it had rained excessively since applied - I think he lied to me, however...) I cannot change his food re: GI track due to the fact that there is not one product available in Canada that excludes everything in his previous diet.  To treat his diarreah, I am adding a tsp. of organic oat bran and a probiotic w/fos 2xper day. (I tried a digestive enzyme to no avail).  To treat his allergies (want to avoid at all costs, steroids due to his compromised immune system), I use 1000mg salmon/fish oil 2x per day, kelp oil, sulfur 3/8 tsp. 1x per day, and a tsp. 2x per day of crushed raw organic pumpkin seeds for zinc. As well "solid gold" seal meal vit. suppliment and to get it all in him, canned green tripe is added to his kibble (3.5oz per meal).  He is fed twice a day.  I also bought two ionic hepa air cleaners and a humidifier for his dry skin and air borne alllergies. As the season progresses, he is scratching more.  I also dose him moderately with benedryl with his food twice a day.  I have several books on raw feeding and it appears to be the be all that could end all problems.  However my vet, and local food supplier both frown on it (food guy supplies frozen raw).  The reason...The sensitivity to the pancreas and inability to digest bone in Shepherds only.  They seem to advocate this for other breeds. Just not the GSD.  I really need to know if this is truely not recommended for my pouch, if you too have heard this with your experience.  What else can I do for the love of my life.  The expense is not much of an issue anymore as his health is running me approx. $300/month.  Please please give us some direction.
Regards,
Stephanie & Gator

ANSWER: I do believe it can help your dog a lot. Nice raw red meat is full of zinc and iron and very often moving off carb laden food helps. Even the potato and duck (which my allopathic vet feeds to his dog) isn't totally free of allergens. Keep up the salmon oil, add about 400 IU of natural vitamin E (salmon oil can deplete E do you have to put it back), get rid of the benedryl and oat bran. Any sort of grains could be causing him problems. Could be the weed killer having an effect too but I hope not.

And I know plenty of people with GDS's that feed raw, some that are breeders. Vets tend to be anti-raw anyway. Funny that he's telling you that in general  Try to stick to plain meat, bones and organ meat especially since he's got issues with allergies. Much of the frozen raw products have a lot of veggies in there. Grass fed is better than what's in the supermarkets if you can afford it. Try just one source of meat in a week so you know if it's causing an allergic reaction or not before adding a second and then a third source.

Bones are the answer for diarrhea too. That's how you can tell if you are feeding the right amount. Too much bone will constipate, not enough will be too soft. And I think that green tripe is about the best food in the world for dogs. I feed it to my dogs all the time.

I think this will help Gator and should save you money as well.

Check this out!
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/german-shepherd-puppies-5-weeks-eating-raw/809

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QUESTION: Hi, and thank you again.  I am not clear about this comment "Much of the frozen raw products have a lot of veggies in there. Grass fed is better than what's in the supermarkets if you can afford it".  What is "grass fed"? and how expensive and where would I find.  Also, are you saying no carbs?  All books advocate carbs, just certain grains are more digestable then others.  I do make his own jerky treats which are 100% red meat protein.  I marinate top sirloin strips and/or beef liver in raw apple cider vinigar and garlic, and dehydrate. Another question, well two...omega 3 salmon oil, 1000mg 2x per day, too much? too little? (he is 100lbs. but in great shape, just a big boy)and what about a digestive enzyme with pancreatin in it?  The prior one I was using (by solid gold) was plant based only, I was recommended to pancreatin type product from a man w/a Shepherd who went to a holistic vet and was advised due to pancreas problems in Sheps. plant based was not effective enough.  As well Sheps. are known for having problems with high protein diets (sorry about the book, I am putting these questions out there also in an effort to help others that view this site) His fav. food was always chicken (royal canin shep formula-which he thrived on)to which I took him off of in Feb. due to the vet and her could be this could be that here spend some money and maybe I can help you.  I at the time insisted his allergies were seasonal and always start in Oct. and did not think it was food.  Sorry another question...If his GI track has not fully recovered since July, what organ in his body may have been compromised by weed killer?  A bunch of stuff happened all at once...took a bite of some feces (I think dog), snatched goose poop for sure, I had cooked him up some ground turkey to add to his food as he wasn't eating well, possibly a field mouse or two and of course the weed killer.  This was all within a three day period, and then boom...4 days of chronic diarreah then meds, pumpkin, bran buds...nothing helped.  He was tested (negative) for worms, treated anyhow, to this day he has not returned to normal. Also can you link me to a good samaritan Shepherd breeder who feeds raw and would advise portion and suppliments and take the "bone shards" fear out of my head? Again thank you...

ANSWER: Grass fed beef is not fed grain but kept on pasture grass. It's usually organically raised with no hormones or antibiotics. It's the best you can get and unfortunately too expensive for most people. You can find it at health food stores or at farms near you. I feed what I get from the supermarket and from raw food wholesalers. When you can't feed grass fed it's good to give fish oil and vitamin E to your dog to make up for the difference. And the frozen raw is often full of veggies which I (and many others) don't feel is necessary. If you research prey model feeding you will find that they don't think carbs are needed at all. I don't feed them at home. Prey model feeding is how a dog would eat in the wild. It involves feeding whole carcasses including fur, head, organs and all. Most can't replicate that (I can't) so I try to feed as close to that as possible. It seems that grains are really not so digestible by dogs and even people and a common source of allergic reactions as well as yeast infections.

About the garlic. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. Many dog products contain garlic while some people say it's not good for dogs. My opinion is still out on that one. Consider that garlic is related to onions which can be fatal to dogs. I make treats too but it's just heart or liver that I dry. I don't see a problem with the ACV though.

The salmon oil dose sounds perfect but make sure it has no soy in it. Soy can cause itchies. Since salmon oil depletes vitamin E you need to supplement with a natural E too. I know people who have given much larger doses of salmon oil to help with skin problems.

The digestive enzyme would be a good idea. And feeding raw is not high in protein. It's just the right amount.

Most vets don't feel that raw feeding is a good idea so you should expect them to try and persuade you to use something else, particularly if they sell it. I don't see how anything man made could beat out what is species appropriate.

The liver is the organ that filters out things from your body and so may have been compromised. Of course, the digestive system has to be populated with the right flora to have food go through properly. I think a good idea would be to get with a homeopath. They concentrate on the whole dog and  not on single symptoms. They can also work at a distance so you don't have to find one close by. Just be sure you find a classical homeopath, one that works with water doses and does not mechanically dose over and over again.

And it's true that worm checks can miss things. However, there are different wormers for different worms and they may have given him the wrong kind. Many holistic pet owners add a bit of food grade diatomaceous earth sprinkled on the food to keep them at bay. You can also use black walnut. When I feel the worms are bad and possibly harming the dog I do use conventional wormers because they are faster.

Sorry this took so long. I had it almost finished and lost my whole response so I had to start over.


Here is a good link for you.
http://www.thewholedog.org/NRBA.html
This site features all raw feeding breeders and also has a forum.

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Gator   QUESTION: I will reference the noted website and am contacting a recommended holistic vet today.  I really appreciate the detailed reply to my questions. I do have one more regarding a symptom he has that I once read online (but lost), cannot seem to find again.  Gator has a slight, but white discharge from his nose.  Last year at this time (winter)I thought it was just a runny nose that was freezing up.  However this has been happening in milder temps. and I had read that it was a symptom of some organ that is distressed, just don't recall which one.  Any thoughts on this?  Again thank you...I am sending you a pic. of the most beautiful Shep. in the world.  Just so you can put a face to your wonderful efforts

Answer
Thanks so much for the picture! He's awesome!

I can't for the life of me find any reference to a white discharge, I'm sorry. Hopefully the vet will be able to help you. Please remember that a holistic vet can be many things including not holistic at all. I'm glad you said he came with a recommendation. That's usually worth it's weight in gold.

Could you do me a favor and let me know what the vet says about the nose problem?

I would suggest getting on to some raw feeding forums. There are many variations on raw feeding and it's best if you investigate for yourself what you think might be the exact path to take.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding