nose color

Question
QUESTION: I am looking at a male poodle to breed with my female golden retriever. I like the idea of getting a mixed variety of colors but I also want to be confident on the colors I am selling that they will stay that color. The poodle I am considering is cream. The dam is also called cream but really appears white to me. The dam's parents were black and the other silver. There is a black and white parti poodle in dam's background as well. The sire is a chocolate brown.I was thinking I could get a variety of colors with these parents and hopefully some redder pups too. Do you think the pup I am considering from this litter is a good choice for my goal? Do you have a better idea of lineage to achieve my multicolored hopes?

ANSWER: Hello Karen,
Color Genetics in Poodles has to be one of the most difficult things to decipher and is hardly ever accurate unless you know all the genetic historys behind several generations of your Poodles.  When breeding for a specific color, you need to know Dominate vs Recessive genes for color and even when you think you have everything figured out, you can still be suprised when the puppies arrive.  
Ok, with that being said, I will first say that I only know a limited amount about the Poodle color genetics and nothing much about Golden color genetics.  
The male you intend to use is Cream, and has a Cream and a Brown Dam and Sire.  These colors are Fading colors, meaning they have a Fading Gene that dilutes the color so that it turns to the color its suppose to be after about a year or so.  In other words, a Brown Poodle will be born Dark brown and due to the Fading Gene will fade over the course of a year to turn more of a Mocha color.  A Cream colored Poodle is typically born a light Apricot color with Darker ears, topknot and down the back, but will usually fade to almost White with Cream colored Points.  You mentioned that the Dams Sire and Dam were Black and Silver.  Silver is a Fading color also, and Black tends to be a Dominate color.  But the Black is on the 3rd generation back, so will be less of a factor (meaning that you probably won't get Black GoldenDoodles, unless the Brown sire of the male Poodle has either a Black sire or dam).  That means that most of the genes up front are Fading genes.  If things go the same in Goldens as it does in Poodles, it sounds like using this male might lead to Fading as the puppies get older.  They could also be Cream colored, due to both the Male and his Dam being Cream.  Cream is also a product of Mixing Black and Silver.  
If you wanted Parti colored GoldenDoodles, your best bet would be to breed your Golden to a Parti colored GoldenDoodle.  This would also decrease the chances of your puppies shedding.  To get GoldenDoodles that don't shed, its recommended that you add more Poodle to the mix.
If you wanted a GoldenDoodle that was darker Red, your best bet would be to use a Sire that was Red and had a Black Sire or Dam.  Red is also on a Fading Gene, but Black is Dominate and helps to Darken a color.  You have to be careful using Black though because Black is Dominate and you risk getting a litter of Black puppies.  

This site breaks color genetics down to help you understand the differences between Dominate X Dominate and Dominate X Recessive and Recessive X Recessive.  It helps make the other sites I have listed more understandable.
http://www.anaracavaliers.com/kindergarten_genetics.htm


Here is a website talking about color genetics in POODLES (its long, but an interesting read if you are in to that):
http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/colorbreedinginpoodles.html

This website talks about the color genetics in GOLDENDOODLES AND LABRADOODLES.  Its very difficult to understand, with all the abbreviations for different colors and Dominate vs Recessive, but again, if you are in to all this stuff, its an interesting read:
http://www.westwoodlabradoodles.com/labradoodle_goldendoodlecolorgenetics.html


I hope this helps you some.  If you have other questions for me about this, or other questions in general (ie breeding, whelping, or other Poodle questions), please feel free to ask me.

Thanks for using AllExperts.com,
Kim   

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I appreciate all the information and additional web sites to use as references for more information. Thank you for the insight! I am also wondering about the pigment of the nose. The sire poodle that I am looking at has pinkish points instead of black. If I breed the poodle with a golden retriever dog that has black points (also assuming that most of this family line also had black noses)will the black points be dominant for the pups? Am I likely to get a mixture of pink, black, and brown noses? The sire of the poodle that I am looking at has a parent with brown points and one with black. Thank you again for your time!

ANSWER: Hello again,
Glad I could be of some help.

Pink points can come about due to Genetics, Age, a condition called "Winter Nose" where the nose turns pink during winter months, or Physical or Medical ailments.   The puppies will probably have Liver noses because to have Black points you need two dominate genes for Black, (BB) but to have liver noses you need (Bb) which is one Dominate Black gene and one recessive Liver Gene.  

Again, it could be called an accurate Guesstimate because you never know what you are really going to get until they arrive.  
Good Luck to you and your babies.  (I am happy to announce that last night I became a Grandmommy and now have 10 GrandRatties).  My Pet Rat had babies.  Sweet.

If other questions pop up, don't hesitate to ask me.
Later,
Kim

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Congratulations on those new GrandRatties! New life is always soooo exciting!
Thank you for the incredibly helpful nose color information. I am so glad I asked you. My final question about dog color is this. If my ultimate hope is to get Goldendoodles in colors of deep red and also possibly varying shades of cream from a litter, should I pick a sire who is already red that possibly had a white parent as well? I realize this also introduces the fading genes. Because Golden Retrievers tend to get darker over time I am hoping that plays into account as well. Another option is that I could pick a sire whose parents are red and black but most likely I will get only reds and blacks even if I had a white English Cream Golden Retriever, correct? My final option is a red sire that has red and brown parents. I am thinking this too will rule out any real light pups? I think I may be trying to get to much out of one litter but I thought variety would be nice if I can somehow choose the right combination and understanding that there is no guarantee and lots of surprises!! :)
Thank you again for your time helping me sort these choices out! You have been amazingly helpful to me!

Answer
Hey Karen,
If you are able to choose your Sire rather than having one already in mind, I would go with a Red that has Red in the background, and possibly Creams or Apricots.  Since Black is absolutely dominate, adding it would most likely produce some Blacks in the litter.

I did some searching and found this wonderful GoldenDoodle/Labradoodle breeder that specializes in breeding Red, Apricot, Brown and Cream Doodles.  Feel free to check them out and to write them as well.  They have been breeding for 15 years so would know what is a good match to get what you are looking for better than I can.  They might also have a Male standing at Stud.
http://www.yesteryearacres.com/

Again, please feel free to write me if any other questions come up and I will help you the best I can.  

Later,
Kim