Can a nonpregnant mare have milk???

Question
QUESTION: my mare weaned a foal in August 2008. She ran with a stud from April thru Sept 2008. She isn't very large. She was thin in Dec and I started her on grain and supplement. She is up to date on worming and shots. She has a very slight bag. A month ago it took four pulls to get a clear liquid from her teat. Now it takes one pull.My vet suggested palpation but I don't want to do this so late. Also, my vet budget is limited and want to save this in case she needs a vet when and if she is in foaling. Do you think she is pregnant? Can a non pregnant mare who weaned close to a year ago have milk?

ANSWER: Hi Carol,

Yes, it is possible for a mare to have clear fluid in their udder that long after weaning.  I had a mare that had a slight udder and clear fluid all the time, no matter what.

BUT... if she was running with a stud during those months, which are prime months for breeding, there is definitely the chance that she is pregnant.

If her foal was weaned in August of '08 and she ran with the stud from April-Sept. '08, then she must have been running with the stud while her foal was at her side.  Most mares will generally have a pretty strong heat cycle approximately 30 days after foaling.

If her udder keeps getting bigger, then you can safely assume she is in foal.

If you don't want to have her palped, then I'd just keep checking her udder for changes.  If she ran with the stud til Sept., then she would be getting close and her udder should start growing noticeably.

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QUESTION: I have noticed her udder get a little larger in the last month or so. Her teats have filled out as well. But, there is no significant "bag". I have checked her teats everyday for the past month and am trying to evaluate the changes. Previous owner stated she never really bagged up until after foaling. I do notice a different type of stomache, almost more muscular looking than my gledings. There appears to be movement by the flank, but felt more prominent movement around Feb March. Would there be less movement now because foal has less room to move? Also, should I just keep her on the increased grain and supplement until late August? I have sold her and am to deliver her after her baby is weaned. The new owner is eager to have her. Am I wise to keep her here, as I am hoping she is in foal? What do you think the percentage of chances are that she is pregnant based on my observances?

ANSWER: Hi Carol,

Actually, you should be seeing and feeling more significant foal movement later in a pregnancy.  The foal will move so strongly that it pretty much will rock the mare's entire body.  at 5-7 months in a pregnancy, which I'm thinking would have been around Feb-March for this mare, the foal movement is felt very low in the belly, rather than in the flanks. The only time I have ever noticed decreased foal movement is around 2 weeks prior to foaling.  During the last month or so of pregnancy, you can actually start seeing the foal pushing in the croup area as they start doing their "stretching" exercises to prepare for birth.

Has the ligaments around your mare's tail head started to soften?  That will also occur during the last month or so of pregnancy.

Since the previous owner has stated that she doesn't really bag up until after she foals, you're going to have a difficult time determining whether or not she is actually starting to fill.  Generally, a mare's udder will start to show change 4-7 weeks prior to foaling.

It certainly isn't going to hurt to keep her on increased supplements for awhile.

Honestly, if she ran with a stud from April through September, I would have guessed that she would have been bred earlier, rather than later.  I've never seen a muscular looking stomach in a mare that is within a few months of foaling.  She should have a belly that is at least protruding to the sides quite a bit, even if she isn't hanging low.

If you have her sold, I think I would be asking the new owner to pay to have her palpated, if they are indeed anxious to get her to their home.  I know that where I live, it is quite inexpensive to have a mare palpated.  Right around $30 or so.  If it turns out she is not pregnant, you won't have to be paying to feed her for another couple of months while you wait to see.

If you have some time and some patience, you could place your hand right underneath her belly, between the lowest point and her udder, and wait to feel movement.  It seems like foals get active while the mare is eating or drinking water.  If she is pregnant and that far along, the movement you feel will be unmistakable.  You will also want to try to feel something several times a day, at different times.

It is really difficult for me to give you a percentage based on what you have told me.  There is certainly a chance she is pregnant, but it is what you have told me about her belly that makes me think she may not be.  Your best bet at this point, is to feel for that foal movement.

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QUESTION: Is there a place I can send photos where you could see her? I asked and for the vet to come to my place would cost $95. Frankly more than I have right now. Her belly does seem to have gotten a little larger and the muscular appearance of it changes. I know her  nipples have enlarged in past month and half or so. She has had a foal from same stallion for last 3 years. She has some health problems and according to previous owner has had an ongoing cough and runny nose for the last 4 years. She had been on 2 doses of antibiotic from Dec thru Jan when she was so thin. My vet said she needs more tests, more than I was willing to spend on this mare, and part of her sale agreement was that the new owner would get this mare additional medical treatment. My main objective of getting her was for the foal. I'm not sure but asking new owner to palpate is a possibility. Previous owner stated that she is very messy when in cycle. Until a month ago I had a 2 year old stud colt and watched the mare closely for signs she may be in heat. Still haven't seen any. Just grained and watered her a little, felt no movement other than a little, no significant bumps. I will monitor this area for the coming days. I don't want to express colostrum but did pull her nipple again while out there. At one time while testing was more yellow, now more clear and kind of slippery. I asked my vet if she maybe lost foal, he said she would be sick or would have passed it, this has not happened. He said possibly she did not take at first and was rebred later or early aborted and possibly rebred later for a later foal. My vet has not personally inspected this mare, she was inspected before I brought her home by prior owners vet but has never been palpated since there had never been a breeding problem with  her. It is hard to tell about tail head. Mare had a significant back injury as a yearling and looks "sway back" but is not. Muscular system was compromised but she has been cleared to spend her life as a brood mare(she has very good blood lines) She holds her tail to the side a  lot. Her vulva appears to be sticking out further than it used to and her butt muscles don't fell softer but appear further down than before. Today her udder felt warmer than usual or the rest of her body but that could be because it was 95 degrees here today. Her stomache doesn't always look muscular, but during moments when it appears there could be a foal moving. Her stomache was lopsided looking in the past but not so much any more. Kind of looks lower but she was so thin after I got her(she's kind of a rescue animal. Her cough has improved(not heaves) and runny nose is intermittent. A few of my geldings are fatter than her but their stomaches are different. Hers appears to change form from muscular looking to regular. She is a difficult one for me to evaluate. I've had horses for 30 years but mostly geldings, not pregnant mares. I really appreciate your input as I try to keep my vet calls to a minimum except for rare cases, and I have spoken to them 4 times regarding this mares possible pregnancy. They keep saying to pay to have them come and I really can't afford it. So, your advice and in put are greatly appreciated.

Answer
I think there is a way to attach photos to your questions.  I know several people have done this in the past.

Now that you have told me that she has had a persistent cough for several years, that is what is causing the muscular looking stomach.  The coughing will actually cause the stomach to become more muscular, leaving a visible line along the sides.

Early absorption of the foal and a later breeding would definitely make sense.  If you have had her in close proximity to a stud colt and she has never shown any signs of heat, that does increase the possibility that she is pregnant.  But if she had not been well taken care of and was malnourished, that can cause a mare to not have regular heat cycles also.

Her croup area would almost look like a fallen tent.  The tail head would be protruding and the ligaments/skin on either side of the tail head would look sunken.  It usually becomes quite visible and apparent within the last 4 weeks of pregnancy.

The fluid from the udder would start to turn thick the closer they are to foaling.  The first thing I compare it to when it starts to thicken, would be almost like floor wax.  And it would start to get tacky/sticky.  The udder doesn't get warmer until usually the day of foaling.  But that is generally in cases where the udder has gotten large.  It will be large, tight, and very warm feeling.  But if she doesn't really bag up until after foaling, you can't even use that as a guide.

Do you know how many foals she has had in the past other than the last three?  Mares that have been used as brood mares will have their stomach muscles fairly broken down and their bellies will look quite large when they are in foal.  Even if this is only her 4th foal, she should be showing quite well.

If she was in bad health and very underweight during most of a pregnancy, there is always the possibility that if she is in foal, the foal could just be very small.  

 At this point, you should actually be feeling the foal rolling and actual pushing against your hand, rather than just little thumps.  The little thumps you're feeling could actually just be gas in her intestinal tract.  A lot of people easily mistake that for foal movement.  If it is a foal kicking that you feel, it would be pretty strong, not just slight.

I really wish I could be of more help, but I still say the only thing that is going to tell you whether or not this mare is within a few months of foaling without palpation, is going to be feeling movement of the foal.

If she is pregnant and you have seen changes in her udder for the last month and a half, I would say that she would be very close to foaling time.  Don't worry about taking a few drops of fluid from her udder.  You cannot take enough from her to hurt the colostrum levels.

Please keep me updated as I would really like to know the outcome.