Fitting bearded dragon

Question
QUESTION: I have a bearded dragon, who is about 8 months old. He has a very large vivarium, with lots of  climbing logs. We use tiles rather than sand. For uv we use Repti Glo 10 compact lights and Repti Glo 2.0 full spectrum compact lamp. We use a Sun Glo basking lamp and a glow reflector. His temperatures are (hot side) usually between 39 and 43 degrees c. The cool side are between 25 and 29 degrees c. He is fed crickets daily with green veggies ( spring greens, green beans, watercress) and sometimes gets raspberries, meal worms and watermelon ( as treats).

Last week he had a fit, thrashing about, then going to the toilet before beginning very weak and placid. We took him straight to the vets where they took a blood test, an x ray and kept him in over night. He had millions of parasites living inside him, and the vet treated him for that with meds. The blood test came back clear. However on Friday he fitted again, the same thing happening, and today (Sunday) he has had another fit. He is now very sleepy, not much energy. I am taking him to the vets in the morning, I actually managed to video a bit of the fit. I'm hoping you could help me with ideas of what would be wrong with him. I feel helpless and I feel as if I'm doing something wrong in the care of him. Any ideas would be amazing, and I will discuss them with the vet.

Thank you so much.
Catherine

ANSWER: Your information was not complete. You did not state the size of the terrarium, nothing about the water source you are offering, if you are using supplements or treated water, etc. I have those very detailed instructions for a reason. If you want a complete possible diagnosis, then I need to have a complete history rather than you deciding what is not important to tell.

That said, your UVB sources are inferior. Dispose of any compact lamps and either purchase a mercury vapor spot/flood lamp or 2 or more linear lams.

I also can't offer much on what you said about the vet's actions and possible findings, because you haven't told me what parasites were identified, nor what medication the vet used. It's possible a medication with adverse neurological effects were used, or the dosage was wrong, or it could be related to toxins produced by massive death of the parasites, or it could be related to none of that.

In short, I cannot possibly give a satisfactory assessment of the situation given the limited information in hand. Reply again and be as complete as you would if you were asking for a second opinion for your own health, including what the vet has done. I would be hasty with that info.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry, I realise that was not enough info.

Yoshi is in a 90 by 45 cm viv. He is fed about 8 crickets in the morning, and 8 crickets in the evening. He could definatly eat more but I was advised not to give him much more. I give him Calci dust 3 times a week and Nutrobal 3 times a week (alternating between the 2) He has a water dish, but does not use it. He has always had a very good appitite, and is still eating fine. Though I do worry that he does not drink. I spray him sometimes too with fresh water. I usually run the greens under water so that he gets it from that. I bathe him about 3 times a week.

I do not know the name of the parasites, though my vet said the type of parasite is usually found in bearded dragons, but only in small amounts. He said there was alot of controversy over if the animals should have this parasite or not, because some believe it helps aid digestion. I do not know the name of the meds given, my vet said Yoshi would be quite drowsy. The vet did say he had never seen so many of these parasites before in a dragon, and that he most likely has picked them up where he was bred.

ANSWER: See my instructions to questioners again and answer ALL items your were asked to provide when you selected to ask a question of me.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: species - bearded dragon

habitat size - 90 by 45 cm

substrate - Tile/slate

Humidity- not sure, occasionally spray with fresh water

bask/ambient temps - 39-44 degrees C

whether you use thermometer - digital thermometer

Lighting UV - As above

vet history - When I first got him a few months ago I took him to the vets
just to check up on his health. They said he was fine. Went last week had the tests (above) done. Will be going in the morning.

all food offered- Crickets. Spring Greens. Green Beans. Watercress. sometimes had butternut squash (grated) and carrot(grated) As treats wax worm, watermellon, rasberries,


feeding schedule -  2 tmes a day, once around 9 once around 5.
supplements and schedule - 3 times a week calci dust, 3 times a week nutrobal


last time ate - This evening, about 9 crickets, and a green bean (cut into small peices)


when and how water is given - water is always offered. Fresh tap water everyday. Though I have nover seen him drinking it, I doubt it does. I wet his greens so he gets extra water. I don't know if this is sufficient, but he does not drink from water bowl.

when last defecated -  this evening, I bathed him.


captive bred or wild caught - captive

shed recently -  About a week and a half ago.

other animals living in same terrarium - No

Answer
Thank you.

Now, the size of the crickets? Gastric difficulty and neurological symptoms can be seen in dragons that are given prey sizes that are too large. This normally happens with very young dragons however.

You are not using a tap water conditioner?

Has anything been noticed that is associated with these "fits" which occur immediately beforehand?

Describe the fit in detail.

It is normal for all reptiles to have some amount of parasite load. This is normal. A healthy reptile with a healthy immune response will keep this in check. The fact that yours was laden with parasites tells me he is either getting some infested feeder insects, and/or he is in an immuno-compromised state and those parasites that might have resided in his gastric system without harm, have now capitalized on suppressed immunity and have proliferated.

The medication the vet used and the dose and concentration he used is important. I need to have that information, as well as the weight of your dragon. Some medications veterinarians are using are not meant for reptiles, and are quite dangerous. Ivermectin is one that can be quite dangerous to some species, and I recommend other alternatives such as fenbendazole before turning to ivermectin.

It is also important to note that in a case where massive infestation is seen, it is not always wise to administer these anti-parasitics, or to use the high end of the dose. When parasites experience a massive sudden die off, toxins are often released which can kill the host or harm him severely. I think he should be treated as a possible acute toxic exposure case. I also think in a massive infestation it would have been wise to go with an herbal alternative to help clear at least some of the parasites out before resorting to pharmaceuticals. It is possible since he was so laden with them, he was already experiencing neurological compromise from that. Perhaps even anemia. The killing of large amounts of parasites at once could exacerbate that. The parasites could also have migrated to the liver or other parts of the body. Identification of the parasites involved is important.

Another issue is that of the inferior UVB lighting you are using, and that he is a relatively young dragon who is susceptible to that shortcoming. There is the possibility that the symptoms are related to hypocalcemia or nutritional metabolic bone disease due to insufficient UVB exposure, thus insufficient Vit D3 production.

I think the vet should look specifically for evidence of this on radiograph, and in addition, that if possible, blood chemistry and hematology also; though it is more likely that given the data, this is related to toxicity and deficiency related to the parasites themselves, but other things must be considered and corrected where I see they are lacking.

Lastly, your terrarium could be larger. It sounds a bit small to me for what will soon be an adult dragon.