Sick Leopard Gecko/s

Question

Dino   QUESTION: Hello,

I have have two leopard geckos that are almost 2 years old.  The smallest of the two was found to have sand in her eye and droppings this last June.  We removed the sand but could not afford to take her to the vet. We gave her hot baths in water and pediasure daily for a couple months. She gained her weight back but her eyes became infected.  We washed them as often as we could but they crusted over (one open and one shut) in Aug.  She has remained very active and continued to eat just fine as she memorized the layout of the tank and would come when she heard the worms drop in the bowl.  The last 2.5 weeks she has not eaten at all.  The skin around her eyes, mouth, and toes is not properly shedding and so we give her baths daily and added a humidity box.  Last week we noticed what looks to be a scab or blackish mark on her mouth. There are also blackish marks on her belly and leg.  They look as though they were burnt or she was maybe bitten by the beetles (the adult meal worms grew- she wasn't eating#.  There is nothing she could get burned on.  We have no heat rock and the tank is kept around 60-70 #just bought a new lamp shouldn't go under 70 today) at night and 80-90 during the day.  As I said she is blind, not eating, very very thin but still active.

The second gecko is big and eats a ton.  She has not been active for a couple weeks now.  This weekend we saw that the last 1/3 of her tail looked burned - sort of like the marks on the other gecko.  We assumed the adult bugs were bitting so we took them out and put in a slate tile so the worms couldn't crawl under the carpet any more. We attempted to give her a bath on Sunday to help but she wiggled a lot and seemed upset so we put her back in the tank.  This morning I found her with her tail off.  The tail and the stub look clean, no change in color.

I bought baby food and will start feeding both of them with it today using a dropper.

We assumed our little one was sick but now we see this might be an infection if they both are.  I cannot afford to take them to the vet but it's hard to see them like this and not cry.  I've called many specialists but they won't answer any questions without seeing the geckos.  I guess I can only attach one picture but if you need more let me know.  Any help of any kind would be greatly appreciated.  We love our girls.

ANSWER: Hello Megan,

It sounds like the larger one may be bullying the smaller one if she dropped her tail like that.
Or did she drop it when she got a bath?
The tank temperatures seem ok.  The basking or warm end should be around 88-90.  A moist humid hide should be on the warm end to help with shedding.  Have you always had a warm moist hide?    
I would not leave food in the tank at all, since she cannot get away from them & they can bite her.
She is completely blind?  How long has she been completely blind?  You will need to try & get that skin removed from her eyes before she gets a bacterial infection going.  Try using a swab to soften the skin so you can remove that skin.  I would get some antibiotic eye ointment to treat the eyes also, since they sound infected.

Start feeding them the baby food & let me know how that goes for you.
You can send more pictures to my email at:
Drache_613@hotmail.com

Tracie

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QUESTION: Hello,

I just put the moist hide in this week.  I ask most of my questions to a local pet store manager and she's been bugging me to get on that. I thought the baths were enough.  The blind one is using it but our fat one (who lost her tail) is not using it.  The fat one did not lose it from the bath, we are unsure why she really lost her tail.  All we know is that it was black and shriveled up for a few days before it fell off and we don't know why.  We assumed the insects so we are keeping them out of the tank for now.  We will also keep them seperate from now on.

 Our blind one has been blind for 4 months.  At first we noticed her eyes were pus like and we tried to clean them off but it never worked.  They crusted over 3 months ago.  She is completely blind.  We can't hand feed her for this reason, she flips out when things touch her nose.  She will let us handle her just fine though.

Our fat one keeps licking the stump of her tail and there is now a big red sore/scab looking thing but it's soft.  Her two back legs stopped moving yesterday as well.  Her back right foot has turned black and she keeps biting it.  It's full of blood and she drags her back legs. It is really hard to watch.  She won't eat from the syringe either. Is there a way to open her mouth so we can put the food in? She flips out when I try.  She hates to be handled.  About 10 months ago she jumped from my hand and seizured on the floor for a while and her back legs went limp for an hour.  Since that day we've been afraid to handle her. She's very jumpy.  I gave her a bath in pediasure today and put neosporin on her tail and her foot. She shed today and we saw that it was not coming off of her right so that's why.  We do them regularly for the blind one because she has trouble shedding so we will do that for both.

Our biggest concern is whether or not they can survive and come back from this.  We want to help them but they are so hard to see in this condition.  I cried so hard this morning when I saw our little one's black foot covered in blood. I will email you more pictures.  Thank you!!

ANSWER: Hello Megan,

So you have successfully separated them now?
What happened to her foot, retained shed, correct?  The foot is necrotic & dead so it will probably dry up & fall off eventually.  Did you put some antibiotic ointment on her foot?
That has to be horrible to see, I am sorry.
The easiest way to open her mouth is to use a swab & try to get some food through the side of her mouth, carefully with a tiny syringe.
So the skin covering her eye (s) just will not come off correct?  
What is the dark looking matter in the right side of her mouth, is it dried blood?
If it is at all possible, you have got to try to get that area on her eyes cleaned up a little bit.  That cannot be comfortable.  You could try placing an herbal tea bag on her eyes, moistened & warmed to help soften the area.  Use a q-tip to see if you can remove any of the retained shed.
I did get the pictures at my email.  Thanks for sending them.

Let me know how they are both doing.
Tracie

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Torch's Feet   QUESTION: Hello Tracie,

I attached a picture so everyone on the net can see her legs.  I sent you photos of our fat gecko who is missing her tail.  Her back two feet are both black now and she has bit off two toes.  Does this mean that they are dead/dying and she will never walk with them?  If we stop this where it is now will she survive with two legs?  We're are debating if she would be better put down.  It's a hard decision but whatever it is is spreading fast and we don't want our other gecko to start losing body parts either.

The insects and the geckos have been seperated.  
In order to get the little syringe into our fat girls mouth I have to hold her and pry it while she squirms like crazy.  I would imagine this is very stressful for her?  She's already lost her tail. I feel horrible doing it but she needs to eat; at least she's fat to begin with.

Our little one eats just fine with the syringe, she's a lot more trusting now that she's blind and really has no choice.  :(  We have tried to soak/wet her eyes with Qtips and things but that crust is solid.  We think what is on her mouth is dried blood and it is not comfortable for her.  It looks like it is difficult for her to open her mouth.  After soaking we have also tried to clean that with Qtips.  I think because she is SO skinny and fragile looking I'm afraid to push it much.  I will look for antibiotic eye ointment today.

There has been 3 or 4 droppings this week between the two of them.  That can't be good.  They lick their calcium dust still though.

I don't know how this all happened to them.  I swear 6 months ago they were perfect.  This is so scary. Do you think either one can survive and come back from this?
Megan

Answer
Hello Megan,
Those pictures are pretty sad.  I am sorry that she has bitten her toes off like that.  Reptiles can live without hands, feet & or limbs, yes.  If the feet are black then it is necrotic or already dead.  When they retain shed like that it constricts the blood flow which eventually kills the tissue.  It will not spread to your other gecko when it is just from the necrosis unless it was a horrible infection.
You have separated them, correct?  
Maybe try just feeding your larger gecko once or twice a week, since she is good on her weight.

Do try to get your other one's mouth cleaned up as much as possible. Can you get any of that skin off of her eyes at all?  You can try to find some betadine & dilute that down & soak the swab in the solution to use on her mouth.  Use just warm water to dab the eyes. Be very gentle when doing this.

I think that them not having a warm moist hide didn't provide enough humidity to help with their shedding.  
They do need calcium several times per week on their feeders, if possible.  
Are you soaking your larger gecko, correct, to help with the retained shed?
What are you using for their moist humid hide?  There should be an undertank heater on the end with the humid hide to help release humidity.  The basking light can be on that end as well to help maintain the 88-90 temperatures during the day.  At night, keep the under tank heater on 24/7.

Let me know how they are doing.
Tracie