mollies / fry

Question
QUESTION: I have a 38 gal with several different kinds of fish along with a male silver sail fin, female orange creamsicle lyretail and female dalmatian lyretail mollie. the creamsicle just berthed about 20 fry and all are doing extremely well and are separated from the larger fish, I'm feeding them small amounts several times a day mixing high protein flakes, freeze dried blood worms and krill alternating between each and sometimes mixing small amounts of each together, I know that variety is important so I have that pretty much nailed down and the temp is right at 78-80 degrees.. THESE GUYS ARE LIVELY!! and growing at a pretty fast pace. I even added small amounts of live plants for them to graze off of. there probly about a week old and already showing some color and there about 1/4 of an inch long. do you have any advice or am I doing a pretty good job as is?

also, before the the creamsicle gave birth the male was all over her and I was wondering if that will take.

I'm pretty experienced, do regular water changes and test the water regularly. I know that live bearers requier more salt in the water but I'm not sure how it would effect the other fish in the tank, in addition to the mollies I have:
2 angels
2 silver dollers
ruby barb
glass fish
bumblebee cat
cory cat
upside down cat
raphiel cat and a placo.

how would additional salt effect the rest of the fish? any other advise?


ANSWER: Hi Matthew
I'd say you're doing great with the fry!  I assume you're crushing it up small enough for them to eat?  Just keep doing what you're doing, and watch the water quality and you should be fine.

As for mollies and salt....I've heard it both ways.  Some say they "must" have salt, others say no it's not a "must".  And, I've kept them both ways before, in a tank with salt, and in a tank without salt.  Actually my longest living molly was a balloon molly I had in a tank without salt.  So....lol make your own judgment I guess :)  But for your tank, I wouldn't recommend salt with some of those fish, the cats and plecos in particular.  They can deal with a small amount of salt added slowly for a short period of time, like treating for ich, but for long term/permanent use, not recommended.

And, the creamsicle is probably pregnant.  Not sure if you know this or not, but livebearers can continue to have fry for up to about 6 months, with no males in the tank, all from 1 encounter with a male....the females can store it and use it when needed lol.  

Sorry, you sound like you got a good handle on what you're doing, doesn't look like I have any more advise for ya :)  Good luck with your tank and let me know if you have more questions.

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: yeah, I had read that females do store sperm for quite a long period of time.. the food that I give the fry is crushed as fine as ash and whatever they don't eat the pleco is more then happy to help and pretty much sucks it straight though the mesh, lol as he is doing right now.. I'm actually pretty surprised how rapid there growth is to this point and I'm taking that the variety of food and the high amount of protein in the flakes has a part in it. would starting a diet like this make them more vibrant as they age or is it pretty much set in stone by genetics?

after messaging you earlier I checked the water in a twenty gallon that i've been cycling and the ammonia and nitrite that was declining has spiked on me. not sure what would of caused it, I have two fish in there to ad the proses and the filter is running well, I have the temp slightly higher cause I read that it could help. I kept the water level low so the "water fall" effect will help with the O2 levels and theres an air rock in also. could turning the filter speed down help by moving the water slower and thus filtering the water better or is this something that will go away after a few days?... what are your thoughts?

lol have a feeling were going to get to know one another

   thanks for all your input, I owe you one.
ANSWER: I remember when I had my lone cory cat fry in the breeder net, my gourami would do the same, would pick at the food between the net :)  I would say it's most likely going to be genetics, but the high protein will help as well.

I've never heard of temperature or slower filtration would increase or decrease the cycle process.  I could be wrong, I've just never heard that before.  As to why it spiked again....that's strange.  Doing anything different?  Like miss a water change, did you add the fish after the cycle started?  Forget to use a dechlorinator for a water change-the chlorine would kill off the bacteria, did you change out the filter?  It will clear up eventually though.  Just keep doing daily water changes to help the fish.

You're welcome, and nah-don't have to owe me lol :)  Anything to try and help out.

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: the only thing I haven't done is water changes cause I wasn't sure If it would hinder the cycling process, I'll do a 20% change today.. how much should I take out daily or every other day while its cycles? I've changed the filter once after the water cleared up but haven't sense, I took it that the bacteria in the element itself would help the cycling, Is that wrong? I haven't added any fish and I NEVER fail to add the water clarifier.. I put it in then add the water to the jug and it goes right into the tank, should I wait awhile before adding the water? Its never seemed to hurt the fish in the past.

also I maid a mix of the flake food, blood worms and krill.. the flakes are OMEGA ONE and the crude protein is 41%, the blood worms are 50% crude protein and the krill is 62%, what would the protein content of the mixture be? I tried to add even amounts of each but theres probly a higher percentage of flakes but not by too much. lol these guys are going to be a bottomless pit when they get larger aren't they? they already have a large appetite but I'm careful not to over feed them. haven't lost one yet. (knock on wood)
ANSWER: When cycling with fish, you definitely want to do daily water changes to help dilute the ammonia and nitrites.  It does prolong the cycle a bit, but otherwise the fish will suffer tremendously and probably won't make it.  If they're aren't salt sensitive fish-tetras, loaches, catfish/plecos, any scaleless fish, when the nitrites start showing up add some aquarium salt.  That helps them absorb the oxygen into their blood stream, the nitrites will suffocate the fish by not allowing the oxygen to absorb into their blood.

Don't change your filter out, actually it's recommended to just rinse it off(not when it's cycling though)in a bucket of used tank water, just wipe it down with your hand in the bucket, and use it for a good 3 months before replacing it.  That's where most of the beneficial bacteria is going to grow-on the filter pad or any filter media like bio balls, etc.  Some will grow on the gravel/substrate, or any decorations as well, but most of it will be in the filter area.  That may be why it's spiking again.  The cloudy water is a sign that the bacteria is colonizing, and if you changed it right after it was cloudy....that would be my guess as to the new spike.  You don't need to wait before adding the jug of water, that sounds fine.  I use a python for my tanks, and I just add the dechlorinator as I'm adding the fresh water in, so that's fine.

That's definitely a lot of protein for them.  I have no idea what the % would be lol, not a math whiz, never was never will be :)  Good luck with them, sounds like they're doing good.  Eventually cut them back to one feeding a day.  With my dwarf platy fry, I only fed them twice a day for the first week or so, then once a day.

Talk to you later!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: lol ya should of said talk to you "soon"

I did add aquarium salt to the water when I started cycling, 1 table spoon per 5 gal. the fish that are in there are a placo and cory cat.

its been awhile sense I changed the filter and the ammonia and nitrite declined awhile after that so I'm not thinking thats what caused it.

how much water should I take out? is 20% too much? or should it only be a few gallons?
ANSWER: Watch the salt with them, they're salt sensitive(not really the best to be cycling a tank with either).  They can tolerate small amounts of salt(added slowly)over a short period of time, but not long term use.  Once the nitrites are gone, I wouldn't use the salt anymore then.

I would change about 10-20% daily, like I said, just to dilute it so they can tolerate the water better.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: It's me again, this is a short one..

my female dalmatian molly is getting pretty heavy and I was reading that they tend to have there fry about three days after a full moon (witch it tonight) is that true even though there kept indoors and aren't exposed to the phases of the moon? and if not whats a good sign that I should go ahead and isolate her from the rest? I do when I'm not here or at night but I let her out when I'm around.. what are your thoughts luv??

Answer
Lol are we on "luv" terms now? ;)

Never heard of the full moon thing.  They say a lot of weird stuff happens around that time, but I've also heard a lot of that was old wive's tales.  I've usually noticed mine will hang out on the bottom when it's close.  I've read that they may stop eating a day or so before hand as well.  I would recommend not moving her back and forth into the net.  I know you want to catch all the fry, but the net can be stressful for them, and can actually cause her to abort them.  You'd be better off investing in a 10 gallon tank and moving her to that when it's close.  Or, get a bunch of silk or real plants, and plant an area in the tank real good for the fry to hide in.  She'll go to that area naturally, most likely.  Mine do lol.  Also, I don't know if I mentioned this already, usually their gestation period is about 28 days, give or take depending on conditions.  That can be a bit hard to time, but gives you a rough idea.  Also, a separate tank would probably be your best bet because mollies can have a bunch of fry, up to a 100 sometimes...  That many won't fit in the net, and really most fry can't stay in the net very long anyway.

Good luck!

Christy