DISCUS with bulging clear eyes

Question

pop eye?   QUESTION: Okay quick run down (thanks before hand), I have 6 discus (3 small and 3 medium biggish) in my community tank 36 gallon bowfront, with 10 cardinal tetras. a bubbler in each corner of the tank with lots of fake plants as foliage and one little cave. Tank is established and running about 6 months.

One of my bigger discus (most dominant, centerpiece of the tank) stopped eating, turned dark, and started hiding. After 3 weeks of trying different foods I set up a hospital tank and put him in there, consulted a local shop they said since all the other discus are fine... my water qualities are probably okay (fish were comfortable enough to lay eggs a few times, PH 6, 0 nitrites, now nitrates, low ammonia, water 84-85 degrees, water change every other day or once every 3 days 35-40%) so that must mean the since he is the only one not eatin he must have internal parasites, they said to try anti-bacterial medications with him in his hospital tank. The very next day of being in the hospital tank and his first dose of metro his colors returned and he began swimming around more. I treated with metro for 3 days (still have more if you think I should use it). I also tried Melafix when he was in the community tank. He has since been in the hospital tank for over 2 weeks and I've tried various foods including live black worms, frozen beef heart, dried brine shrimp, frozen blood worms, and sinking discus red granules. I was procrastinating putting him back in the community tank seeing as he's been swimming around and looking colorful to see if the others would coax him into eating. Before I could make my decision the community tank heater died and I had to move the hospital discus to the community along with his heater. First 2 days he swam around with the others, flared himself large, remained with his bright colors. Today, the third day, after the water change yesterday, he's hiding low like how I first found him when he stopped eating, his colors are just a tad darker and his eyes suddenly are LARGE! they are perfectly clear, but about double their normal size. He is no longer swimming around and he is just hiding. Everyone else is still fine.

I just bought a new heater and I'm thinking about treating him with the rest of the metronidazole, I really don't know what to do, he's the most beautiful discus I have ever seen.. and he was living so perfectly and happy in his community and now he's just having so much problems. I think collectively he has stopped participating in actively eating when I feed for a combined time of 5-6 weeks. The guy at the fish store said he must be eating SOMETHING to stay alive, he's not starvingly skinny, although he clearly isn't as beefy as he used to be. When his colors are bright you wouldn't even know he wasn't eating. Now with his eyes big and bulging (though clear!) I don't know what's going on with him! What could be going on?

I haven't changed anything in routine, if anything I've been doing more water changes for more ammonia control, dechlorinating the same, cap of API water conditioner, and a cap of Seachem Primer.

I guess he's going back into the hospital tank for more metro.


please give me any advice you can on what could be going on, and what's up with his eyes?

took a photo for you to see, I have more, and can take more specific ones if you'd like

thank you so much

ANSWER: Hello JC,

First of all, he's salvageable if you get him proper medication right now and change his atmosphere some...I know you have strived to have a perfect place for him, but I see some immediate flags just from the photo.

No fake plants with Discus.  Although nice silk copies, those have plastic stalks.  Take one out, and while wet, run your finger up that stalk.  That can really injure a sensitive fish such as a Discus.  Change the plants #1.  Get softer, live plants, or go to decorations only ... a log is always nice for them and they enjoy grasses.

Secondly, the water is clear.  I could be wrong...maybe you do the blackwater already, but if not, read on:

They require blackwater to survive properly.

Please look for Black Water Conditioner.  This has the blackwater effect (it will darken your water slightly but this is a GOOD thing for your fish), and it also contains very necessary trace minerals and vitamins for your fish.  

Breeding is fantastic!  :)  That's a plus.  

Third issue: I would treat his Popeye as soon as possible, and you need to treat the entire tank.  

I would add salt to my system to try to treat the popeye.  I'd also get completely away from tap water.

Let's get this out of the system.  It is highly contagious..

Add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon.  If it's a 36 gallon, add 36 teaspoons of salt, increasing tomorrow to another half a teaspoon per gallon.  Discus aren't salt-easy.  Let's watch the tank after that.  If the eyes are not cured after five days of treatment, with the 1.5 teaspoons per gallon already administered, go ahead and dose one more half teaspoon per gallon and then watch him up to 10 days.

It will not hurt him to treat him with Methyolene Blue as well.

Best advice I can give you is get rid of the hard plants.  That is probably what's causing his eyes to get Popeye.

Renee



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: also should I raise the temperature from 84 degrees? perhaps to 88? I've heard this can help sometimes? Now that I have two heaters I could place them both in the tank?

thanks. also let me know if I should put in the metro while administering your recommended salt doseages.

should I carry on with my normal water change routine while administering the salt? or no water changes for the next 3 days?

ANSWER: Water changes in 3 days, every 3 days til cured.  Administer salt back to the levels removed when replacing water.

Meth Blue = fine for saltwater treatment to double seal the healing.

84 degrees steady.  Don't raise the heat.  The last thing you want to do is to deprive them of oxygen from a heat-rich atmosphere.

This you do for ich, but that's not our isshe.  We do it for ich because it makes the larvae pop sooner. :)  You don't need to raise the temp for an infection unless it's been too cool or the infection is protozoan by nature which requires heat.

Renee

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you Renee, I certainly will rate you the highest rating available, you're fantastic!

I'm worried about putting the meth blue in the community tank because I think it destroys the benificial bacteria. Do you still recommend the use of it? could I remove my filter media from the filter and put in secondary media to salvage the bacteria? Should I take particular filter media out of the tank when administering the salt / meth blue?

thank you!

Answer
It would indeed kill the beneficial bacteria, some of it, but not all.  It's a live tank and will re-establish, however if you want to give the salt a try, first, that can be sufficient in itself.  

Don't re-use any filtration...especially anything the disease could harbor in.

:)

Renee