Budding yeast

Question
Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for getting back to me.  My vet is indeed a certified avian vet from the U.C. Davis Vet School.  I am pretty good about sterilizing my hands before I take the bird out, and I change her papers daily and give the whole cage a thorough sterilization with boiling water once a week (she is not in this cage when I do it, obviously).  I am more than open to getting a new method of sanitizing, though.  The probiotics that I use are from  "Morning Bird" Bird products, and are a powder that according to the package are to be either diluted in water or spread over fresh food.  I have been using them only since she started the 45-day round of antibiotics and I mix up a new batch every day and sterilize her water dish every night with boiling water.  My vet suggested a product called benebac which comes in a paste that I can give directly to the bird.  Speaking of the vet, we went back yesterday and  had her retested, and she was not far out of the range of normal for the yeast (rare occurance of budding as opposed to the 2+ that she had when we first brought her in (no bacteria either), so rather than put her back on drugs (she has been on them since August in one form or another), she wanted to wait a week (while observing for any changes obviously) and bring her back next Saturday(12/9) for a retest and see if the probiotics and her old routine might help the gut flora/fauna to work itself out.  She described it as sort of a wrestling match between the good stuff in her gut and the bad).  

My bird doesn't get many nutriberries--usually only as treats when she comes out to play, and her main diet is Roudybush which she also loves.  We store the Roudy and the nutriberries in airtight containers that we keep at room temperature (away from moisture obviously).  

Any thoughts on getting her to eat fresh food?

As for the green poops, she hasn't been doing them yesterday or today, and her moodiness is gone for the time being. One thing the vet suggested is that when I was giving her medicine every day, I gave her a lot of individual attention after giving her the medicine and she might have been mad because our routine changed.  Or she could have just been ticked.  Not a clue why the green poops have gone away.  The vet said that sometimes a bird coming off of antibiotics and antifungals might be producing differing amounts of bile as their bodies aren't back to normal yet.  

There are no other birds in the home and my wife and I are the only ones who handle the bird (mostly me).  

Does this clarify anything?  Any thoughts?

Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it!

Andy
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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
I have an almost three year old female budgie who keeps getting persistant budding yeast and bacterial infections.  Her latest round of meds was a 45 day course of antibiotics from her avian vet, along with two two-week cycles of ketoconozole for the yeast that were seperated by two weeks of no ketoconozole.  These treatments finished about two weeks ago.  At the vet, she was given a clean bill of health, and we were told to bring her in two weeks later for a recheck.  

Up until a few days ago, she was back to her old self--lots of chirping and playing, but recently she has begun to poop greenish poop again (but no vomiting as she exhibited when she was REALLY sick).  Today she seemed rather ill-tempered, and didn't dialogue chirp with me as she normally does.  In fact, when I whistled to her, instead of her ususal chirp, I got angry warbling sounds that she makes when her space is being invaded.  I suspect she just might not be feeling good again and might have another yeast infection.  Her avian vet doesn't seem to know what is causing these infections.  Do you have any thoughts on what might be causing this?

Technically, I am not sure she has come down with another budding yeast infection, as she is not going to the vet until tomorrow.  

A little more info to help you out,

Diet: Roudybush pellets, supplemented with a few nutriberry seed treats every day. She abhors fresh food--we've offered everything from fruit to parsley to broccoli--the girl just won't eat it!

Conditions: Clean paper daily, and we add probiotics to her water every day (they are supposed to help with birds recovering from digestive illnesses)

Thanks so much,
Andy
-----Answer-----
Hi, Andy.  Thanks for posting!

Are you sure the vet is a certified avian veterinarian and not a regular vet who just dables in avian medicine?  If your bird continues to get yeast and bacterial infections, either the meds being provided aren't working (either the type or amount) or your bird keeps becoming reinfected somehow.  Did you thoroughly disinfect everything your bird comes into contact with while your bird was on the meds?  This would be the first thing I would recommend.  Do you disinfect your hands well before handling your bird?  Any other birds in the home or other family members that might interact with the bird?  

Probiotics in water is something I've never heard of.  Probiotics are usually a dry powder that is added to a bird's soft food in order to replace good gut flora that was killed from using antibiotics (probiotics are only used for a few days after meds are stopped).  When anything is added to water, it becomes watered down too much and can actually start bacteria growing in the water.  Then the bird drinks the bacteria soup as we call it.  This could be a source for your bird's bacterial problems depending on when you started using the probiotics.  Were you using anything in your bird's water before she became ill?  Your bird isn't on a very good diet.  The pellets are good, but Nutriberries are nothing but seed held together with corn syrup.   Your bird needs a variety of other foods.  I realize you state your bird dislikes any other types of food, but there are ways to get around this initial dislike.  And, it may not be that your bird dislikes other food, it might just be that she doesn't recognize what you are offering as being food.  A bird won't eat anything it doesn't recognize as food, and it will not eat other foods as long as seed is available at the same time.  Diet has a tremendous affect on a bird's health and behavior.

If you haven't, you really need to take her back for her recheck.  This is very important.  Let me know what the vet says and we can proceed from there.

Chrys

Answer
Me again, Andy.  Green poop can also mean liver damage.  With liver damage, you might also see regurgitation (but regurgitation can also mean affection toward it's humans).  However, my previous statement that if your bird eats green pellets a couple hours prior to pooping green, this could just be from the pellets.  If your vet thought there was the possibility of liver damage, based on other signs, she would perform tests for this.

Chrys  
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Hi again, Andy.

You seem to be taking very good care of your bird.  I'm not an avian vet, so you should do what your avian vet recommends since she can see test results and the bird personally.  I can only share with you my experiences and knowledge, and I'm at a disadvantage not being able to see all that's going on.  

I don't like putting anything in a bird's water.  A bird needs fresh, clean water every day.  I would recommend using the probiotics over soft food and only AFTER any meds have been stopped.  When putting something like the probiotics in the water, then the bird drinks the water after having eaten something or if germs are on it's beak, bacteria begins growing immediately.  Drinking water is a major source of bacteria when it comes to parrots.  Benebac is a good probiotic.

It would be best to get your budgie on a variety of foods.  It would be better for it's health in the long run.  Just remember that a bird will not eat anything it does not recognize as food.  The bird doesn't know if food is something to play with, something to avoid, etc.  Therefore, you need to keep offering the foods daily until the bird eventually tries the food.  Sometimes it helps if your bird sees you eating the food while saying something like "Yum, yum!"  You probably think I'm nuts, but parrots who are friendly with their humans usually want whatever they see their humans eating, so this can help (your bird considers you part of his/her flock).  Since your bird is 3 years old, it may take time to convert s/he, but it can be done.  You cannot leave seed in the cage at the same time you are offering other foods because the bird will always choose the seed over anything else.  Remove any seed during the time you have other food in the cage and replace the seed when you remove the human food (leave any food you offer in the cage for a couple hours...you don't want it to spoil, but leave it in long enough to give your bird an opportunity to get used to the food).  Provide pelleted food 24/7.  Offer types of food such as corn bread, cooked brown rice with shredded veggies mixed in, whole/multi grain products, dry sugarless cereals, etc....healthy, nutritious human foods.  When you have dinner, fix your budgie a dish of the nutritious foods you are having.  More on this on my website:

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/birdinfo/index.html

The vet is correct about your bird's attitude changing as a result of giving meds, etc.  Birds can get "moody" when their humans do things they don't like, like giving meds, clipping toenails, clipping flight feathers, etc.  With some birds, it helps to have someone else do these things so a bird doesn't get angry/upset with it's humans.

The green poop could also be a reflection of what went in the front end!  In other words, if your budgie was eating green pellets, his/her poop in a couple hours could be green.

I hope your budgie gets well soon.  S/he seems to be on his/her way.

Chrys