Green horse issues

Question
QUESTION: I have a green 6 year old arabian, he still gags on the bit, tries to get his tongue over it, does settle down after time. Does it alot when I ask for the trot, it becomes very annoying. He also still turns his head the wrong way when he trots, that is to the outside. It isn't easy riding him in the round pen at a trot. Today I put a side pull on him (after becoming fed up with the gagging at the trot),I trotted him, he was calmer and nicely flexed at the poll. Is my full cheek snaffle a problem? That is all I use, no gadgets... On the trail he misbehaved by trying to run home I corrected him...then working him uphill, he would not trot calmly, broke into canter which I didn't ask for so I tried to bring him down by bumping the reins, he bucked and threw up his head,(we did this several times over with no success bucking only once ) I one reined him to a stop and proceeded to do the hill over again this time, sucessfully at a walk all the way home on a very loose rein. He seemed respnsive to my one rein squeeze when he tried to trot off from the walk...Did I initiate the bucking? Should I have let him canter? I don't trust him to canter especially homeward bound,should I?
I do lateral bending, both sides and down to ground. He does move his haunches over nicely and backs with head down. This is down each time before riding. How do I get him to the next step of a nice trot, slow med and fast. and a collected canter. I want to do competitive trail or endurance but on a controlled happy horse. I feel like we "fight" each other at times. Does he have an attitude or do I create it? I really want to train him well and become the best rider/trainer for him and my other 4 year old arabian.

ANSWER: Hi MJ!

I can hear your frustration, so let's work on finding some answers so you and your horse can find the fun!

You can tie the snaffle bit up in his mouth so that he cannot get his tongue over the bit.  However, since he does settle down, once he is right in his feet he will be right in his mind and his frustration (chomping at the bit) will just go away.  The answers for all of these things can be found in the feet.  Tom Dorrence always said: "When they are right in the feet they will be right in the mind."  

I think your snaffle bit is fine.  I use a "D" ring or an eggbutt just because there is less to get hung up.  Sometimes the leather keepers on a full cheek can pop off and it leaves the cheek pieces poking out.  I just want all of my gear to be smooth.  Just make sure the full cheek has good keepers.

I'm not really understanding the "gagging"???  Is there some sort of airway issue?  Or is it just lots of mouthing the bit and getting his tongue over the bit?  Have you had his teeth looked at?  Make sure he has had good dental work and that there is no reason for him to be physically troubled with the bit.  I keep going back to what you said that he does calm down, so I that is the direction I'm going to go with.

Your horse seems to be sensitive.  If he is better in the side pull and troubled with the bit...what are your hands doing when riding in the snaffle.  With the side pull there is a lot your horse can ignore.  Mistakes made with the hand in a sidepull do not have the same consequences as mistakes made with a bit.  Be VERY aware of what is going on with your hands when using the snaffle.

MJ, we are having a storm here tonight and my lights are flickering...yikes!  I'm going to shut my computer down and I'll finish answering this in the morning...if we have power!  This answer will take some time, I need to talk to you about why your horses attention in outside the round pen while you are riding and why she is counter bent.  I also need to explain to  you the use of the snake trail and the sage brush trail, two deep bending exercises that really get to the feet and will help you on your rides home...shutting down now!  Cross your fingers that I have power!  I'll finish this just as soon as possible!  Thanks for your patience!  
Smiles...in the dark!  Denise



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the quick response! I don't have keepers on the full cheek snaffle, I do have an eggbut as well that I purchased and never used. I'll try that The gagging. I watched carefully from the ground opened his mouth and he tries to put his tongue over the bit, plays like this for awhile, an it is more pronounced when I ask him to trot or when I ask for anything other than a walk, it occurs when I ask for a sidepass, shoulder in, backing. ( By the way, more than once he has turned his head, ears pinned to try and bite my leg ). (He is NOT an affectionate horse, but he is brave and will go where I ask riding alone)
I have asked for the trot with loose reins he still raises his head and seems to tense up, I've played around with the amount of contact I've done this excersis : doing the trot 5 steps, walk, trot 6 steps walk, etc etc. maybe I haven't enough of this??? His teeth were fine last vet check a couple of months ago. I have done the sage brush..in other words...I bring his head around his haunches swing over and I do this in a winding pattern, I also head for a specific point then turn asking head to flex in the direction I am going and haunches to swing over, and repeat,I guess I need to do more, maybe I haven't done enough of this? I tense up when he bucks because I feel like "if he gets away with this he will always buck because now he is getting away with it". Is this true? I am so aware that I need to be the "boss" and whoever controls the movement of his feet is the boss. So it must be me, just reading this e-mail I can see that I am probably at fault.

Answer
Good Morning MJ!

I have power and lots of pretty snow!  One of the hardest lessons I had to learn was that when things go wrong with my horse, Yes, I am at fault.  I was missing something that would help my horse understand better.  It is a hard pill to swallow sometimes.  You seem very humble and willing to work through this.  I'm proud of you.  You will get it and have a wonderful horse as well, so PLEASE try not to be frustrated.  Do what you can to enjoy the process.  A year from now you will look back on this and cherish every moment because you are becoming a true student of the horse.  You will be amazed at what this horse is teaching you.

I would use the eggbutt.  It is a better option if you don't have  keepers for the full cheek.  The most important thing here is really getting to the feet.  When doing the sage brush trail is is tight, really tight, and deep bending with the FEET following through.  All four feet must be stepping through on the line of "S" turns.  The mistake I see here most often is that the head turns and there will be feet braced and pivoting not WALKING the line.  Your reins will have to be very short while doing this, it will be really hard work for both you and your horse if done correctly.  You will have to have your reins so short that you will be leaning forward at the waist, your back will get tired!  You will also have to be very aware of the feet and you will have to bump your horse forward, this takes a ton of leg.  You will have to lean, look at the feet if you need to, keep kicking with your legs to keep him forward and walking very small steps on the line.  Ray calls it the sage brush trail and if you have ever ridden in the desert, or Texas you will really get a true picture of how tight these turns need to be.   You can't leave the rear end behind or allow it to pivot or else you will be belly deep in the sage brush.  I want you to think of this as the "jumping Cholla" trail!  Arizona is famous for this cactus.  I have ridden in it and it really brings this exercise home!  Think of how particular you would have to ride if you had a the single track trail in front of you filled with cholla and huge cliffs on either side!  You would have to bend deep and keep the feet moving on the line in order to not end up with cactus stuck everywhere or rolling off a cliff.  If you want to see bucking, get stuck in Cholla!!!  Keep this mental picture clear when riding back to the barn.  If your horse is not offering to walk back on a loose rein, relaxed, start your cholla trail.  When his mind changes and you feel him relax, open up, go straight on a loose rein relaxed.  If things fall apart, go back to the cholla trail again.  Be consistent.  Keep up this pattern until you get the changes you want and then always know this is a tool you can count on.

I really feel that your horse is braced in the feet.  His frustration is coming out as mouthing the bit.  You can tie it up if you want too but, I really feel that when all the parts and pieces come together it will stop.  A lot of what is going on with him is a respect issue.  Turning his head and biting at you while you are riding...he is just not believing in you as a leader he can trust and has respect for.  He sounds like a pretty cool horse but you will have to really step up to be the leader he is looking for.  He feels like he has to take over to be safe and survive.  Your plan has just not been good enough for him.  He is brave!  When you get your relationship sorted out with this guy he will walk through the fires of hell for you with his bold attitude!

Ray Hunt:  "Be aware of what happens BEFORE what happens, happens."  I know you can feel when a buck is about to happen...right when you FEEL your horse think about bucking, bend him, rub him, keep rubbing him as he is bent, make it feel good to him, get off if you do not feel a change and start doing your ground work and if you are are feeling tense!  Your horse feels what you feel!  I think you both get to feeling the same and that is when the bucking happens!  Horses that buck are troubled about something...what is going on just BEFORE you feel the buck coming?  Riding is all about feel, timing and balance.  If you take care of the "issue" the buck never develops.  I want you to trust you instincts, MJ!  Listen to your gut.  If you are starting to feel tense, step off your horse, start doing some ground work, make it meaningful.  Look at your horse, how does he feel about what is going on just before things really fall apart.  When you feel better you  can then offer some real leadership to your horse and he will feel better.  Always have a plan of action.  Your guy is smart!  Know what you need to pull out of your training bag of tools to help him out and support him.

Have you watched the "Groundwork" DVD by Buck Brannaman?  If not, please do.  Find, rent, steal, borrow or buy it along with the "Groundwork" book.  It is small and red.  Do everything in this book and make sure you don't skip a page!  Use the DVD as support to see things more clearly.  You horse really needs to go back to the beginning and learn all of these skills.  There are just too many holes in him right now.  Take your rope halter out with you on trail rides and if you need to, start doing your groundwork out there.  I just feel that when you cover all the bases you will have a different horse.  

Start him over.  Begin at the begining and check out all of his skills.  It seems that he has parts missing or things that were not taught with quality.  Start by hooking him on with your NEW attitude as leader that has a good plan.  Use your flag, tarp and slicker every day.  Get him comfortable and relaxed with these things to the point that riding with them is no big deal.  Have you used a lass rope and roped up his feet, belly and flanks?  Can you lead him by his front feet and stop him off a hind foot?  When you do all of these things with him you will notice that the little issues you are having with him today will be gone.  You just have to go back further in his education and then come forward with quality.

So, as of today your gelding is now a 2 year old colt!  Watch the DVD's I suggested and we will walk through the process from the beginning.  You and your horse will be so much happier and you will know what was taught to him was with real quality.  

If I have used terms and concepts that you do not quite understand, please let me know and I will clarify.  I know there is no easy answer here, but you are on the right path now.  Take joy in this.  Look at all you will both be learning!  How exciting.  Keep me posted and we will get this done!

One more Ray Hunt quote..."Whistle, grin and RIDE!"

Smiles, Denise