Elderly Male w/ multiple questions

Question
Scooter is an only rat, but he's so social it would be more accurate to say my kids and I are his clan.  My elder son had to get him for an Animal Behavior class in high school, and I totally wimped out at the end of the class when I found out they'd be used as feeders.  He's been a great addition to our family.  He'll be four in April.  I'm starting to get worried, though.  This last six months have been really hard on him.

Last summer he had a horrible case of mites. I took him to the vet and we got rid of the mites with Ivermectin and Baytril.  His tail was really bad.  It's all scarred and lumpy now, but it seems to be okay.

Even after the mites were gone, he would still itch and his eyes would weep poryphin.  The vet told us to change his bedding, and we've been through several different sorts of bedding since then.  It goes away for several days when I bathe him and for the first few bedding changes with the new type but then it comes back.  We were using the aspen chips, so we switch to the paper.  I was using the unbleached, uncolored kind.  Then she had me switch to the white stuff.  Now we're going to start using a product called Soft-Sorbent.  I'm working under the assumption it's still something in his cage.  On top of bathing him more often, I started washing his toys daily and he seemed to be doing pretty well for a while.

I should probably explain the bathing.  He likes to take real baths in the bathtub.  I'll run him an inch or so of water and let him run around.  Then I'll wash him with baby shampoo and dry him with a towel.  I also wash his nylon hammock the same way.

But then a few weeks ago he started slipping and falling.  He's not allowed to free-range, but he is taken out several times a day to play with the kids or I. He's always loved to run around the couch and climb up and down the back and around our shoulders but he started falling off, which he'd never done before.  He slipped of my daughter's shoulder too, and luckily my son caught him.

It's slowly getting worse.  He's stopped really using his back feet.  It's been a gradual thing.  He'll stand on them to use his front feet to groom himself and stuff.  They still move somewhat, it doesn't appear to hurt him when I move them.  They're warm and pink (he's tan).  He gets around fine, other than he doesn't climb up into his hammock anymore.  He's not dragging his hind legs; it's more like crawling on his knees.

He is eating like a horse and drinking like a fish, and is going through two chew sticks a day. He's still tearing around the couch nosing into things, bruxing in my ear, giving people tongue-baths, crawling down shirts and trying to eat the chewy buttons off the TV remote when he comes out to play with the kids.

After reading a lot of your other answers, you seem to say a lot of times that we should really be worried more about the poryphin.  His behavior hasn't really changed, but if he's suffering and we just can't see it then I can't let this go on.   

After all that blathering, I guess here are the basic questions:

Bedding:  I've read in the threads the suggestions you have for bedding.  I've tried all of those that are available here in my area.  I read somewhere else someone suggested using towels, but that would remove one of his favorite things to do - digging around in his bedding and hiding stuff and arranging things.  Do you have any ideas?

Hygeine:  Do I need to keep sterilizing things?  Or is this just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

Quality of Life:  He's got a check-up appointment with the vet coming up in March.  Should I try to get him in before then?  Or should I just keep up with changing the bedding like the vet has me doing unless I start seeing obvious symptoms or things start to deteriorate?

Answer
Hi Colleen

First of all, let me say that your Scooter is an nice old man. He is beyond the normal life span of a rats already too short life. Your doing a great job raising the little old man so be proud!

Also,keep in mind that a rats behavior is indicative of how he feels. If he was suffering he would not eat like a horse. He would stop eating or show little interest and perhaps pick here and there. I have studied rat behavior (on a semi professional basis...in other words, with no credentials hanging on the wall in my office, unfortunately) and I have studied the behavior of rats that survived being a lab rat, snake food, abuse and yes, believe it or not, sexual abuse (yes, believe it or not, people can be THAT sick!) wild rat behavior, rats that live alone, rats that WANT to live alone, LOL...and all of these rats express themselves  right through their belly. If your rat turns his nose up to his favorite food that usually he will continue to eat till he pops, you have a rat that is ill or in pain.

Scooter sounds like he is still enjoying a good quality of his life. HE does sound as if he has Degenerative changes which come with age. (I have a big article on my website about caring for the elderly rat with these ailments that are presented to us when the rat ages)  Male rats especially, are more prone to Degenerative Osteoarthritis which can eventually lead to hind leg paralysis due to spinal nerve root compression.
The many signs include (and often come on gradually)

Inability to move like before, such as climbing,grasping and grabbing on to ladders etc..
Gradual changes in limbs and joints such as stiffness.
Hind leg weakness, sometimes one sided, sometimes both legs.
When total compression of the  spinal cord and nerve roots occur, the rat will stop using his back legs and drag them around. It looks terrible to see the rat this way, but the rat feels better than he looks.

There are a few things you can do to make him comfortable if you haven't done it already. You will need to of course alter his cage and be sure he is on just one level so he doesn't have to climb ramps or ladders any longer. Lower his hammock so he can drag his body into it since he cannot climb. The shoulder sitting of course has to end unless you keep one hand on him at all times.
Lower his water bottle so he can reach it without having to do much other than waddle over to the nipple, raise his head up and drink...put his food on a flat dish or something low so that he can get his food easily as well.

Also, since he likes to dig in the litter etc...you can make him a  box for the litter and keep in at one end of the cage and cover the other half of the floor with fleece or another type of material that doesn't fray. Towels are a bad idea because the threads of the towels will loosen and can snag the rats nails or even wrap around a weak leg and cut off circulation in just hours while your at work and may not be there to intervene. Before I forget, you also may want to watch his back toenails. He will no longer be able to wear them down since his feet are not flat on the ground and the nails wont naturally wear down, they will begin to grow curled up  and will need trimmed. Its not always easy to trim rats nails (I hate to do it still!!) but you can snip the tips with nail clippers. They may be more brittle than normal too and may split so beware of that, too.
What we need to do now (well not "we" since its not like I live with you guys..LOL!) but you and others that take part in Scooters care, will need to make his golden years comfortable and safe,too. By removing the litter from the entire surface of the cage this will also make cleaning up after him a bit more trying (thats where EVERYONE pitches in, not just mom! :-) He may pee all over the fabric but thats ok...you can go to walmart and buy a yard or two of fleece or some other type of fabric that wont fray or shed etc...and just cut out a bunch of squares as per the proper size you need (wash the fabric first since it may shrink up some) I would use dreft or ivory snow on the fabric and in fact use it on any of his things that need laundered like hammocks etc...and double rinse (since we are dealing with a rat with ultra sensitive skin) The extra purchase of special soap for his laundry wont be a waste since you will probably be washing these things every few days anyhow.
When I put fabric down in a cage, I usually leave enough around the edge and put the cage down on it before snapping the sides of the cage tight and this way it cant be pulled up easily by the fuzzbutt. Having fabric down will  make him more comfortable and he can pivot around the cage better rather than having to drag through litter. Meanwhile, as for his litter pan, you can use anything really, even a shoebox with a door cut out for him. He will probably go in there to do his business because he has been doing it in litter all his life, but due to his age, he may start to leak urine and not groom it off easy so this is where you come in to be sure to keep his bottom clean by wiping it down a few times per day with unscented baby wipes or even a damp cloth with a bit of baby soap or ivory soap on it and rinse. Baby wipes are easier though but just wanted to throw in another idea rather than telling you that you have to keep buying all these special things here and there. One thing you will want to have on hand is childrens liquid motrin. You can dose him several times per day to help with any mild pain issues and also it will help wonderfully with inflammation. I will give you the dose at the end of this article.
I am trying to think if I covered everything I wanted to say about this subject before moving on to the itching....I know I know this is LONG isn't it? Sorry.... I tend to write mini novels on certain subjects where there is alot of bases to cover.
Meh..I will move on to the itching next and if my senior moment passes and I can think of whatever else I missed I will do a follow up so double check your e-mail just in case!  :-)

Itching rats....I swear I get at least one or two letters per day on this subject, so much so that I ended up going over it with my own vet again to be sure I was giving the correct advice. Sometimes I refer back to one of my own articles and simply copy and paste it here but in this case I cant since his problem is a little different than the other rats that I am contacted about.
For starters,


I am also going to assume that the itching has only lingered since the mite outbreak and this has not been a life long thing that I can possibly blame on his diet?  It can even be a combination of both actually and sometimes vets skip right past that part and blame the bedding or some other inanimate object. Diet has alot to do with skin problems in rats. You wouldn't believe the stuff written about it on various websites. I tend to stick to the professional sites that are geared for certified exotic vets and techs etc..so when I do have information to share I know its coming from a professional source but many of the rat related websites state the same information about diet and rats with skin problems.

Aside from diet (its usually protein allergies btw) rats can also suffer from dry skin and eczema as well.

Has the vet given him cortisone injection for this condition before?  Is there an area that he is itching such as his back?
How often does he itch and does he itch himself so much that he is causing a breakdown of the skin and in turn developing scabs and sores?
Often, itching rats if not from parasites is often from diet or simply dried skin. I am wondering if the frequent baths or perhaps the baby shampoo isn't drying his skin out and causing itchy skin. This is also common and alot of vets miss this and go right for the bedding thinking that its the bedding used.

Before we go further talking about his itching I wanted to ask the questions I just asked...so I will put them in order for you to answer for our follow up:

1. Does he have sores or scabs?

2. Has he been treated with anything other than ivermectin for ectoparasites such as steroid injections, creams, ointments, even an anti-histamine like benadryl, for itching.

3.Would you say his itching was so relentless it interrupts him? Example, he is in the middle of drinking and stops to itch himself several times.

4. Is his diet low in protein, or to make it easier, what does he eat the most of on a daily basis?

5. Is he overweight? Something tells me NO because a fat rat is not a healthy rat (so they say!) and this little guy has had a long life that is pretty uneventful aside from these few problems and one is age related.

Anyhow, I think I have blabbed enough for a bit. Meanwhile I will wait to hear from you so we can narrow this down and try to figure out  what this itching is all about since we cant blame the bugs any longer!!
Also, not sure if you read this before but make sure you freeze the rats litter for 24 hours before using it to rid the litter of any parasites that may be in the litter. This is a regular source of transmission of lice and mite eggs.
One more thing before I shut my pie hole.....LOL


about the porphyrin...I say not to really worry about it as long as it is something your rat has on a daily basis that is not linked to being ill. I have rats that ooze it daily and are not sick and have had the discharge for 1 year now (thats how old they are) and its simply from an overly productive harderian gland.  With Scooter and other rats, if he normally doesn't have this  and all of a sudden starts to ooze it from his eyes or nose or both,  this is a sign of stress due to illness or anxiety from many factors like death of a cage mate and of course he may be stressed because he is itching too.

Whoops!  Almost forgot! I did say I would tell you the dose for the childrens motrin. I cant believe I actually remembered to include this like I said I would.  I have a LOUSY memory and cant blame my 44 years young for it but instead thank mother and my DNA since I have always been pretty forgetful my entire life...that and the fact I talk entirely too much about entirely too many things at once and its no  shock I would get side tracked!  LOL

For the childrens liquid motrin:

15 mg to 60 mg/lb every 4 hrs, but I would do it every 8 to start with.
This would usually be about .20 ccs for a normal sized rat.

DO you have an idea of how much he weighs by chance?

Also, you asked if perhaps you should move the vet visit up some and get him in sooner. It wouldnt be a bad idea mainly because instead of fooling with childrens motrin, the vet may want to put him on something else such as metacam.

I also suggest liquid valium to be used for mild anxiety. Dosed at a low dose, the rat can safely take it twice a day, morning and evening and this will NOT impair him to where he is all doped up and sleepy. Rats have a super high metabolic rate and can metabolize things pretty fast. I have dosed my own rats that have had serious respiratory issues and the valium helped to calm them down to  the point their breathing was near normal. Without the valium, the rat would become very anxious.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
I gave her the valium twice a day and was never sleepy and she never acted drugged up etc...
However, not every vet is sold on this due to lack of knowledge on how it works on rats which is why I usually tell people to tell the vet to contact me or the clinic to get more info about its use.


*Looking forward to a follow up with you*

Sandra