High Nitrate Salt Water

Question
QUESTION: Tank 11 yrs old 46 galreeftank-nitrate about 80-alka4.5-salin.from beginning 1.022--phos0--PH8.4--iodine in range-calcium 440----Magnes. in range basically all water parameters are--Nitrates have been 60to80 for about 7 months--14 gal water change every 2weeks--salts used are red sea--mersaltz--coral marine & instant ocean--protein skimmers do nothing have 2 a CPR back-pak & Eshopps both hang ons after days of running maybe half an ounce -- De-nitrate,purigen and poly filters also do nothing--my tap water is 0 nitrates--have over 100 lbs live rock--plants grow like hell----here is the kicker my coralmostly soft florish and reproduce,fish are fine they number 9--I have small amounts of coralline algae--I have done nothing different to this tank I use Kent iodine,reef essentials and reef builder nothing else--water readings from water company have remained pretty constant for several years--Ihave tested nitrates with API,Salifert,Multi-Test by Seachem And Fast Test so have mant fish stores they are all right-on. I rode to the ocean and brought back 10 gals of water,it tested 0 nitrates took 10 from mine had a 40 reading immediately in 24 hrs back to 80. I know don't fix what ain't broken but this does not make sense. A wild question do you think my rocks need changing 11 yrs this tank and 9 yrs in the previous tank---also a 4"live sand bed plenty of snails, crabs, sand sifters and you name its for clean up. So what do you think and what can you offer?

ANSWER: Hey Rich,

Thanks for reaching out to me, but i am guessing your 11 years will outweigh my 5 years of experience...

But, for the sake of just talking... (I love it when i get to do that  :)   )

Nitrates are more important for SPS and some inverts and anemones, but fish usually dont care.  Soft leathers are less prone to problems as well.

So, your concern for ALK and CALC and MAG are pretty much not really needed, or appreciated by your tank critters...  Although it is good to know.

With the size of the water changes you are doing you really shoulnd have a need to add/supplimnet any of those or many other chemicals... Again, it would be indicated in test results prior to adding the suppliments...


Do you have a sump?  Im guessing no, as you have used hang on skimmers.  All skimmers take time to break in...  until then, they will produce sproadically, either wet, or dry or not at all... I would suggest going with the cpr and letting it run forever.  the worst it will do is oxygenate the water...
Are you using a cannister filter?  If so, does it still have teh 'bio-ball'/bio beads/ceramic bead/disk??? If so, i would lose those.. ASAP.... Big time problems... Also, if your filter has pads.  do you change them every month... I would... i would rinse them every week, and replace them every month... (which is why I dont suggest cannister filters.. too much work)

I would also proably do a MAJOR water change.  at least 50%.  then wait a couple hours and test again... this should show a drop in nitrates.

You could change more then 50%, it's up to you.. but it shouldnt be a problem if the water used matches what is taken out, pH, salinity and temperature...  I would do it just before lights on in the AM.

As for your theory of the rocks being full of poop?... I actually think it could be contributing to it..

I have a Bare Bottom tank, and part of the process is to 'blow off the rock' with a turkey baster.  (I use a small power head).  I do this just before water change.  And i put a filter pad in my sump baffle when i do this to catch the particulate matter...

I would suggest blowing off SOME of the rocks, not all, not at the same time...Maybe one side, this week, and the other side the next???

Anyways, i am not sure i offered anything you havent already tried, but hopefully we can chip away at the nitrates.

good luck, and please keep me posted.

If you want to talk in more detail, with me, or with other reefers, you can find us at my new forum at

www.thelittleocean.com


hope to see you there.

bill

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Bill B,
I tried "thelittleocean" web but could not make heads or tails of how to e-mail you-------but let me answer the questions you asked.
1. It's a 46 reef tank lighting metal halide and actinic,several different anenomes all my coral with the exception of 3 are soft no coral is suffering but they reproduce quite readily.
2. since I first wrote I have changed 35 gals of water as of now 9:30 am EST Nitrates are just about 80 again (3 Tests)
3.I run my tank with 2 aqua clear 300s with pre-filters and alternate weekly cleaning or changing filter pads, foam clogs much faster even with pre filters. I like pre's as they catch any food not eaten and snails or hermits usually climb on pre's and eat the trapped food--no beads,balls, and never a canister filter.. I polish my tank with Black Diamond Carbon every 2 weeks for 4 days.
4. I eliminated cal.suppliments awhile back as it never changes--kent essentials 1 cap full every 2 weeks, iodine 1 cap.a week. I figure my water changes add the elemets needed.
5. In regard to live rocks I wondered if through the years most pores were clogged and they lost the power to filterI know they break down and get smaller through the years.
6. I clean the rocks about every two weeks no baster i use a 301 power head and keep the filters on high and then clean the pads when all settles.
7. I just need to solve this problem there has to be something. My other thought is maybe my sand is to fine but a 4'' bed for 11 years I don't know,--------------Thanks Bill


Answer
hey rich,

not sure what problems you are having over there, but you dont need to email from that site.  you may post a message in the 'introductions' section, and from there other and myself will reach out and say hey, and then we can discuss what or why you can email or message me directly.

Thelittleocean also has a live chatroom feature, so, if others or myself happen to be online at the same time as you are, then we can 'chat' live.  LOok for the CHATROOM button/link at the top menu bar.

The 'pores' in the rock are not really what you think they are, (or, they maybe).  the pores and the spaces where teh bacteria grow, are actually towards the 'microscopic' size.  They can get clogged, but the organisms are supposed to digest whatever they catch or within reach...

I would imagine it is possible to put too much nutrient and therefore kill off the organisims or make them less efficient, but if you are power washing the rock periodically with that power head, then I doubt that is the probem...

It could be a matter of too much fish and waste and excess food for the amount of bacterial organisms that you have.  Again, this is more critical for the hard corals and not so much towards the softies.  

I would toss the pre-filters. and get new ones.  And change them out every 3-4 weeks MAX.  Dont let the food particles have a chance to breakdown and create the nitrates.  if you have that much food getting caught, then rinse them often, but throw them away more often...

HAve you considered a sump/refugium with some macro-algae, chaetomorpha???  The refugium is a good way to suppliment your live rock and live sand and not clog up the display tank with that type of stuff...  (aesthic issue)

Anyways, hope this helps and hope to see you on www.thelittleocean.com


b