fish die in 8 hours

Question
QUESTION: The tank is a 29 bio cube. Factory lights but fairly new. Tank has been set up for about 2
5 years. Lost all fish (2 clowns) dus to red slim and meds for the slim. Have only had corals, crabs, snails in it for a while now. Just recently decidrd to introduce fish again, so I thought. Tried dragon sifters, 2 in the last 24 hrs both died with 8 hours of being in tank. Had the fish store chreck water they say it is all fine. 0 phos, o nitrate, 1.024 salinity, 8.0 ph, 11 kh, nitrite 0, 78 temp. Tank has factory filtration with skimmer and small corrila pump for extra circulation. Nothing is dying  ,  and I am aclimating them to everyones standerds.  30min temp adjust, and 30 min water change, third of a cup every ten min,I DONT GET IT,HELP!! PLEZZ

ANSWER: Hi Linky,

I have ideas what could be going on.

I need additional information to answer you concisely with the best expertise I can provide.

Are you using any chemicals to treat the water?  ie: Dechlorinator, Chloramine killer, anything for water quality?

If so, what products?

Are you adding additives?  What are they?

Were the fish transported warm and in safe, short term conditions?

Were they shipped or were they bought locally?

Are there corals in the tank and if so, do you have a lot of zoanthids or palythoas?  If so, are you aware about the toxins and how they can kill people/fish?

Have you ever had a pufferfish die in the aquarium?  If so, how long ago?

Have you ever used a copper product in the aquarium?  If so, how long ago?

What kind of inverts are in the tank?  Do you have a mantis shrimp, pistol shrimp or large hermit crab or lobster?

Have you checked for electric current getting to the water somehow?  Ie:  A loose powerhead top?  A light?

It seems to me that with your method of comfortable acclimation and the tank's specifics, that something else is happening somewhere.

A lot of people who have this issue often don't use R/O water.  If you're not using it, may I make a suggestion that you change all the water in the tank and give it a try?

Take out 75% of what you have, and put in r/o water.  

It's about $1 per five gallon bottle at our local Food Max store.  Outside it is a water fill station for drinking water.  You put an empty milk jug or a 5 gallon bottle in and it gives you the water for a fee.  Those stations are usually Reverse Osmosis-filtered, and ontop of that, some are like ours.  Ours gets UV sterilization ontop of the filtration.

Cyano started for a majority of factors.  The Cyano comes from light, low flow, silica sand in the tap water supply, using tap water, using dechlorinators, and it is really hard for some people to battle.

When I tell people that the cure is simple, they laugh at me.  But, it is.  I live in an area which has massive issues with cyano, in almost everyone's tanks, but we learned to combat it years ago.  The simple methods are to increase flow in the tank, lower heat, good quality lighting helps (no compact fluorescents), and to use R/O water is #1 on the list.

I will do what I can to help you locate the issue with the fish.  I think two heads can truly help find answers.  That's why I volunteer here...to help, but I hope you don't mind a managerie of questions, meantime.

Try changing the water out.  Use R/O to replace it. Cycle it 3 days.  Go to the store and get one damsel.  They're $3 and you can give the thing away later.

Freshwater dip him prior to putting him in and don't put any petstore water in your tank.

Write back meantime, and I am going to give this a lot of thought tonight.  It seems the water tests have GOT to be off.  Somehow.  Something isn't right somewhere.  

Looking forward to the reply...meantime, relax.  

Have a peaceful night. :)

Renee

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry, yes I have always used ro water.. Just completed a 30% water change prior adding the first fish, how check for electric current in the water...? As far as the water test both I and the store concur on the results... No zoanthids in tank... Candy corals struped mushrooms button polaps. Reef hermits 10 or so turbines and an asortment of others all doing ok... If it where electricity wouldn't everything else be dying? Thanks for ur help

Answer
Hi,

No.  Electricity, in low current, actually enhances aquatic growth, but fish cannot handle it.  Still, I don't think that would be your cause.

Is there a chance it is the fish store's fish which are in poor shape?

Button Polyps are either Zoanthids or Palythoans.  Are they purple by chance?  Rust colored with green or purple?  If so, they could be giving off a toxicity.  Your tank is only 29 gallons.  The button polyps contain one of the most deadly toxins known to man and you should use HEAVY caution while handling them, yourself, as well.

Yes, thousands of people handle them, daily, and don't die, but for the few who do, yearly, it happens within 3 minutes of toxicity setting in.  Many more get eye infections and numbness in the arms or joints.  Button Polyps can be a deadly matting coral.

Here is a link or two to help you identify which kind you have.  

Read this thread especially:  http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/clownfish/56660-can-zoanthids-kill-clown-fish.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/coralidprofileresource/p/palythoa.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19545971

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin

http://cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oGdU82NVhN7mIA6JRXNyoA?ei=UT Some of the most toxic would be listed in the order of toxicity.  I had the green centered red ones...they made my arm numb for DAYS.

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/resources.asp?show=16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoantharia

I have heard other experts sport the comments such as , "I have had them for years, never knew anyone who died from them" or "Only some have toxicity, others don't" or " I handle them all the time and I'm fine"...well, they are some statements made from complete ignorance of the fact that it takes a very, tiny, minute amount of the toxin to kill a human being (let alone a fish) and that it can indeed be transferred by touch into the arm (as was in my own case) and in water (like the lab who died from drinking one sip of a 5 gallon bucket with a zoanthid colony inside it while the owner changed tanks) or like the people in the former forum's url who stated that their clownfish died from the toxin.  It is deadly.  Period.  Be cautious while keeping them.

I don't mean to frighten you.  Toxicity killing people is not a common occurrance, but they are poisonous enough that when they were discovered, a coral collector had happened across a big pool which had zoanthids in it.  He reached into the water to look and died within 3 minutes.  Again, the toxin was in the water, itself.

Palytoxin is NOT ONLY IN PALYS.  It is also in Zoanthids.  ALL zoas and palys contain some form of this toxin.

My worry for anyone who has button polyps in a small space.  The toxin could indeed be in the water.  Clownfish rubbing against them or fish laying ontop of them can contract the poison, especially in small spaces.

Corals left alone without fish contact have a natural ability to repel fish by exuding toxins.  This could very well be your case. Maybe your unsuspecting fish landed on them.  They let out some toxin and the fish died.

Hermits may not be as effected as fish, who have direct contact.  This is not an unheard of case.

Petstore owners/workers will poopoo my advice.  Read the articles.  The toxin is very deadly.  Use caution while handling.  Don't drink or ingest any water where they are kept and watch fish who are in areas of zoas and palys.

Perhaps this is not the cause of your fish's deaths, however it is all that comes to mind for me, unless there is a direct current, or some kind of toxin in the water source causing this.  If your readings are this good, then there is nothing that should be causing the deaths.

It has to either be something toxic or the fish source, itself, is supplying you with weak fish.  Is this a possibility?  Could it be the store's stock?

Renee