Tank out of control ...

Question
QUESTION: Hi Richard,

I am trying to recover from the mistake of adding too many fish after cycling.  I had community fish many years ago, and I am now getting back into the "hobby".  History: initial cycling of a 40 gallon tank took about 2.5 weeks with two Praecox and six Danios.  No big spikes, just rises in ammonia followed by nitrite, then 0 readings across the board.  A week later, I added 10 small African Cichlids and a UV sterilizer.  All was well. In the last week since I added the Cichlids, the water was a bit cloudy and I observed an ammonia rise (to 0.5) which was combated with a little Prime and part changes.  Four days ago, I had an algae bloom - turned off the lights and made sure no direct sunshine for three days - green water cleared up. Lost two Danios over two days due to what I thought was fin nipping to the point of no tail fin - another part change.  Note: since the Cichlids were added, there has been no fighting of fin nipping, just a few instances of a short chase here and there.  All fish are about the same size except for the Danios which are smaller. After some reading, I thought that it was fin/tail rot that did in the Danios. Yesterday, observed some frayed bottom fins on one Praecox and a single split on the Albino Cichlid's tail - so, I started a Maracyn II cycle and added a Pleco for the algae.  Today all was well until the early afternoon.  I looked at the fish an hour later and ALL of the cichlids were at the surface gasping for air. I checked my tank's chemistry and ammonia dropped, but the nitrites were up at 2.0 (previously all 0's).  I panicked and scoured the internet and found a post by a previous expert in this forum that matched my situation fairly closely.  Main point was the bio filters not keeping up with the load as that person added 10-15 fish. Recommendation was Bio Spira (salts and pH fixes) and the person's tank recovered with no dead fish. I did two 50% part changes and looked for the Bio Spira (4+ hrs of calling around and driving).  Did another part change and added the Bio Spira (turned off the UV per instructions).
Current numbers and conditions are:
pH - 8.0
Ammonia - < 0.25
Nitrites - < 0.5 before adding the Bio Spira
Nitrates - 8
Temp - 77 degrees F
Added appropriate amount of salt to make up for changing the water.
Tank very cloudy.
Cichlids on lower portion of tank breathing normally and seem ok at the moment.

So, after this, I realize now that I added fish too fast and I need some major hand holding to recover.  I need help to 1) stabilize the tank (if not already done so by the above method) as I like the Cichlids that I have and don't want to loose any more fish, 2) take care of the fin/tail rot - two of the remaining danios' tails seems light in color at the base and I am afraid that their tails will fall off, etc., plus the Praecox's lower fin is frayed, and 3) take care of the algae issue.

<geez!>

I assume that the first priority is to re-establish the bio filter as an imbalance there has the potential to kill fish faster than any disease.  Do I leave the tank alone now with no more part changes until the numbers are at zero (Ammonia/Nitrite)?  What if the amonia or nitrites are high tomorrow?  Anything else that I need to do in the short term?

Your help is most appreciated.

Thanks,
David

ANSWER: Hi David

Well first, even in a completely cycled tank, never add more than 2-3 fish at a time, or 1-2 larger fish. Next, Praecox and Danios are not compatible with African Cichlids. Their water requirements are very different and African's are too aggressive for these peaceful fish. What you are seeing is not fin rot, it's aggression whether you see it happening or not. You'll need to separate them soon or you will eventually lose the Praecox and the Danios especially when the African's get bigger.

As for your tank, I don't what expert's forum you were reading, but I do not believe in adding any chemicals to a tank other than water conditioner. Most other experts on our site will agree with me. Medications of course are sometimes necessary, but chemical additives such as Ph fixes and Bio additives DO NOT WORK regardless of what they claim and what someone else said. Even if they did work, you have to replace the exact amount of these chemicals with each water change.

So I would not add any more chemicals to the tank. I would do an immediate 25% water change, followed by 10-15% water changes every few days until your tank clears and your readings are back at 0. I also would discontinue the use of Maracyn as it will cause serous if not fatal problems for your Pleco. Definitely do not add any more fish. I would however add an airstone or an additional airstone to increase oxygen in the tank. Make sure when you are doing your water changes, that you siphon the gravel to remove waste and food particles. Raise the heat just a little to 78-80 degrees.

As for salt, it will irritate and possibly kill your Pleco if you add too much. So, no more than 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water.

If you follow these instructions, your tank should be just fine in a week or two. But you're going to have to separate your fish and get all the chemicals out of the water first through the partial water changes.

I really hope this helps get you back on the right track, good luck!

Richard

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Richard,

Thank you for your rapid response.  I will follow your instructions exactly.  Did a 25% part change first thing this morning.  

Numbers are (before the part change):
pH - 7.8; Ammonia - 1.0; Nitrite - between 2.0 and 5.0; Nitrate - n/t; temp 75.6; water clear and fish seem to be doing ok. One of the Danios bottom part of its tail fin has been nipped.  All other "fins" look no worse this morning.

Adding fish: 2-3 at a time - got it - I don't want to do this again; losing sleep and I am sure the fish are not happy, either.

Danios and Praecox: I will find a new home for them back at the fish store that told me that they would be ok with Cichlids.

Previous information: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Freshwater-Aquarium-3216/Nitrite-levels-chart.htm

Additives: I would like to follow the non-chemical path. I am using API's Stress Coat+ as a dechlorinator and BufferMax as a pH buffer.  What would you recommend and how much?

No more chemicals in the tank: Done.

After the tank settles and the numbers are good, what part change schedule and gravel vac schedule do you recommend?  Vac all/most gravel each time?

Maracyn II: I only did the initial dose before things went out of control - stopped.

No more fish: got it!

Air Stone: I will do this.  What is the additional aeration/oxygen for?  I had a "discussion" at the fish store with one of their "experts" that said bubblers or airstones were no longer necessary if there was plenty of surface exchange with the filter, etc.  Seemed odd to me based on my previous experiences.

Raise the heat to 78-80 degrees F.  Will do. Why this range? I am finding that my heater is not keeping up (it is the correct rating and size for my tank), so I will take care of that this evening, too.

Salt: I will cut back on the recommended rates to your suggested rate.

Richard, thanks again for your help with this.  If we could keep this thread open until things settle, I would appreciate it.  I will do a 10-15% part change on Saturday.

Lastly, what website/forum/authority would you recommend for African Cichlids?  What airpump/type would you recommend?

Thanks,
David

ANSWER: Hi David

I read the discussion by Joe Calabretta and some of what he said was correct and some wasn't. There are many chemicals on the market that claim to instantly cycle fish tanks. The simple truth is, they don't work. I also didn't agree with the 50% back to back water changes. Doing this will stress the fish moreso than the high ammonia and other tank problems.

I don't know what moron told you that Danios and Praecox would be ok with African Cichlids, but they definitely need to find another line of work. Danios and Praecox are peaceful community tank fish, African Cichlids are the most aggressive fish you can buy. Aside from that, Danios and Praecox need a more neutral pH of 6.0 to 7.5 and African's need a pH of 8.0 to 9.0. African's also need slightly warmer water.

This is the reason I mentioned raising the temp a little. It's much harder for aquarium heaters to keep up in the winter time. Raising temp to 78-80 will allow for a slight drop at night without making the water too cool. 75.6 is much too cold for African Cichlids. The heaters in all of my tanks are digital and set to 82 degrees. In the mornings, my thermometers generally read 78 to 80, and in the evenings they read 82.

BufferMax and other pH buffers also do not work on a permanent basis. They will raise the pH slightly at first, then it will return to the previous value after 24-48 hours. This rollercoaster spike in pH value is more stressful to your fish than anything else you could throw at them. Your best bet is to test the pH in your tap water and this is what you will have to work with. If the pH value of your tap water is too low, you can add African Cichlid Sand or Crushed Coral to your substrate. These will stabilize the pH without causing the stressful spikes of pH buffers. StressCoat+ is an excellent water conditioner. It dechlorinates the water and replaces and protects the slime coat of your fish.

As for your water change schedule, I do 25% water changes in all of my tanks once a week. You won't have time to siphon all of the gravel before 25% of the water is gone, but make sure you get all areas of the tank. About once a month, move rocks and other decorations out of the way and siphon under them. Make sure you don't have any fish hiding under these decorations. I sometimes accidentally pickup my little Cory Cats with the siphon and have to wrestle to get them out of there so I can finish.

It's true that filters do provide oxygen to the tank, but when a tank is in trouble as yours is, it's always a good idea to add additional sources of oxygen to the tank. Increased levels of salt and heat also decrease the oxygen level in the tank so adding an airstone to the tank will replace this much needed oxygen.

Any airpump sold at your local fish store will suffice. I can't really say that one is better than another. Just make sure you get the proper output for the size of your tank. This information will be on the box.

There are many great websites out there regarding the care of African Cichlids. Below are a few I found for you.

http://cichlid.infocrux.com/Cichlid-Care.html

http://www.kensavage.com/archives/african-cichlid-fish/

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/african-cichlids-care.html

This thread will remain open, you can ask me a followup question at any time. However, my time on weekends from Friday to Sunday night is limited as this is the time I need to maintain my own tanks. It may take me a little longer to get back to you during this time, but I will respond as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Richard











---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Richard,

Thank you again for your rapid response.  Numbers today are:
pH - 7.7; Am - 1.0; Nitrite - > 2.0; Nitrate - 10; temp last night 79.2, 77.5 this morning.

Fish seem to be doing fine and the water is clear - only real change was the temp.

Also, thank you for expanding on your explanations - I now have a better understanding of what is going on.

The Praecox/Danios have found a new home.  I talked with the manager of the store about the "moron", but just got a shoulder shrug and said that sometimes it (fin nipping) happens. I got mixed answers from staff about other questions that I asked. I will find another store that I can trust.

The tap pH is about 7.4 to 7.5 so I will check out your suggestions of African Cichlid sand, etc.

Thank you for the Cichlid links!

I have a few more questions for you while we wait for the tank to stabilize: 1) your recommendations on controlling algae?  2) How many Cichlids do you recommend in my 40 gal tank?  Current residents are about 1.5" to 1.75" in length; 10 total + Pleco  3# How does one add Cichlids to the tank so the others don't attack them if adding a few at a time?  I read that re-arranging the landscape (rocks, etc.) helps and/or feeding the current residents just before one adds the new occupants.  Per your statement that you probably won't be able to answer as fast this weekend due to your own tank maintenance, there is no rush as we need to wait on my tank to cycle again anyway. I appreciate your willingness to help me out.

Thanks,
David

Answer
Hi David

It sounds like we're on the right track of stabilizing the tank.

As for your questions

Controlling algae = I let my Plecos handle the algae in all of my tanks. Occasionally, I have to take some decorations out and clean them with a toothbrush. Also, all of my tank lights are on timers and are on for 12 hours a day from 7am-7pm. Cutting the lights off after 10-12 hours will aid in keeping algae under control.

Number of fish - I really think 10 African Cichlids and a Pleco in a 40 gallon is plenty but it greatly depends on the type of African Cichlids you have and the size they will reach as adults. One inch of fish per gallon of water.

Adding Cichlids to an existing tank - Make sure the new Cichlids are the same size as the current Cichlids. Rearranging the landscape, adding a couple of new rocks always helps. Create new tunnels and caves when rearranging the decorations. Try to set up at least one hiding space for each fish. And yes, feed the current tank mates just before adding the new fish. Finally, add the new Cichlids to the tank after the lights are off for the night.

You're welcome, I'm always glad to help. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Good luck!

Richard