blue rams

Question
QUESTION: ok, i have problems.  about 1 week ago i lost 2 angelfish, it started with heavy heavy breathing, then they stopped eating.  within two days of that, they both died.  no visible signs of disease, perfect water (i test daily).  i chalked it up to me being careless and feeding angels live brine.  now all my blue rams are gasping heavliy.  its not at the surface.  they started gasping and hiding at the bottom, now they are starting to lose some of their color.  i had one stop eating yesterday and woke up to my first ram death.  and the others seem be be getting worse, still have yet to try to feed them today.  i took a guess cause it seems to progress so fast and im treating with seachem metronidazole, but its just a shot in the dark.  i have a 46G bowfront with 6 (now 5) blue rams, 2 red tail hemiodus, 6 otocinclus, and 1 yoyo loach.  the loach, otos, and red tails dont seem to be showing any signs of anything......yet. but the rams are what i built the tank for so please help!!!????  heh.  thank you
ANSWER: Hi,
Heavy breathing could be a sign of lack of oxygen, so move the filter up towards the surface of the tank so if causes bigger ripples in the water so they get more oxygen.
What are the actual readings of the water?
I recommend buying test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate if you do not have them already. Ammonia and nitrite are both very poisonous to fish, so they both need to be kept at 0.0. Ammonia poisoning is another possible reason for the Ram's heavy breathing. Do 30 percent water changes every couple of days until they are both 0.0. Nitrate is less poisonous than nitrite or ammonia, but still can be harmful in large amounts. It should be kept under 20ppm. Live plants help to reduce it.

Also give them a variety of food which will improve their chances of eating, such as bloodworm, brineshrimp or daphnia. Be careful not to overfeed them though.

Stop treating them with seachem metronidazole, as you should never treat for  disease unless you are certain the fish has it. It can actually do the fish harm, which I'm sure you don't want.

If it does not improve within a week, try to take a picture and send it to me on kathrynhaldane@yahoo.co.uk
and I'll try to give you more information.

Best wishes,
Kathryn

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: i have a test kit for the water...i test twice a week and do water 25% water changes once a week (this week ive done 2). im really strict with all of that.  my nitrite and ammonia is at 0. just to be sure i didnt have a bad kit i took in a water sample to my fish dealer and he tested it with two different kits, the water is all perfect.  i was worried about possible O2 levels, but when i noticed the angels breathing heavily at first i put in 2 air stones, and the filtration i use are the Bio-wheel hang overs. and none of the fish are ever gasping at the surface.  so im confident its not the oxygen, all the other fish are fine too.  its just progressed slowly to different fish and on different levels (angels first, now the rams).  i lost another ram today, and 2 more are starting to look pale.  there is litterally no external flaws. not a mark, no lumps, no bloating, no cloudy eyes.  just gasping, then loss of color and appetite, then death. with the food....i am feeding Ocean Nutrition Formula One as as the staple, with Hikari blood worms and tubiflex along with it (not every day though). and i was also feeding fresh live brine. im honestly completly baffled. i have this (my south american tank), a tanganyikan tank, and a malawi tank for about 5 years now and ive never had anything like this happen. i cant even remember the last time i lost a fish to any sort of disease, so this is pretty disheartening.
ANSWER: Hi,
Well, this is rather odd then. Did you buy the Angels and Blue Rams from the same shop, but the others from a different one. I am thinking that the tank you bought them from may have contained other fish with some strain of internal bacteria unbeknown to you when you bought them. I've had whole "batches" of fish die all at once simply because they were diseased when I bought them.
One of the most common causes for heavy breathing, apart from low oxygen levels, is high water temperature, but because both Rams and Angels prefer high temperatures, so unless it is over 30 Degrees Celsius I would doubt that to be the problem.
Is the nitrate too high? As in is it over 20ppm? If so that could be contributing to the heavy breathing and loss of colour.
Even if there is little physical difference to the gills, I would now suspect a gill infection or another sort of internal bacteria. It is difficult to tell, as heavy breathing can be caused by dozens of things, and picking a  specific one out is impossible. I would treat the tank for Melafix, if possible putting the Blue Rams in a quarantine tank if you have one while you are treating. Melafix treats for most common diseases, including internal bacteria and gill infection, so if it is that within a week it should have cleared up.
I hope your remaining fish do get better.
My very best of wishes,
Kathryn

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: i got all the fish in the tank the the same shop.  the rams i made sure they were local bred so they would be used to the water qualities of the area.....and i just didnt want overseas "juiced" fish. the thing is i had the angels/hemiodus/loach for about 3 months, the rams for about 2 months, and the otos for about 3 weeks. but it all started about a month ago, it just doesnt seem to fit into the timeline of when i got any new fish or anything. i guess it could have been dormant??? the nitrate is good also, i test for that (forgot to list it), and i had the shop double check that too. i keep the temp. at about 78-80 and everyone in the tank seemed to like it there best (more activity/color). ill try the melafix....i just feel like its to late.  i lost 2 more rams today and one oto.  so now im down to 2 rams, 5 otos, 1 loach, and 2 hemiodus.....but now the hemiodus are starting to gasp a bit. ill try that though, hopefully it helps to at least save the rest.

Answer
Hello again,
You are clearly passionate about your fish and it is good that you take such care.
Yes, some diseases such as internal bacteria can lie dormant for some time before suddenly appearing and before you can actually do anything about it, it spreads and quickly kills the fish.
When you have a disease that is clearly killing fish but the actual name of the disease is unknown, the best thing to do it treat with Melafix and do 30 percent water changes every couple of days. Keeping the gravel clean also helps very much.
Apart from that, there is little you can do.
Are the fishes fins clamped against it's body? Does he have slightly popping eyes? These symptoms are a sure sign of a bacterial infection (internal bacteria).
If you can get any pictures, even if there are no visible changes to the fish it still may help.

I hope very much the remaining fish survive,
Kathryn