running through fences

Question
QUESTION: I have a 7 month old arabian filly.  I have had arabs all my life and my mother bred them for a long time.  This filly seems to be one of the worst foals we have ever had (behaviorally).  I don't know if it is because she was an only foal (in the past we always had at least 3 foals a year),and she spent the most of her life just with her mother and no other horses to teach her manners and boundaries.  She was born in July and it was very hot, so the first month of her life, my mom let her have a small paddock and a stall to go where she pleased all night and she spent the day in a larger paddock.  When we moved her to my place, I only have a small barn and one pasture, she seemed to hate being confined to the stall at night.  She was almost impossible to catch for the first 4 months of her life (we put the halter on foals the first time they ever leave the stall).  She is very defiant; she kicks at you when she doesn't want to be caught, when I put her in the stall at night she runs into the door over and over again.  It's definitely worse when she's being neurotic (when we first put her in the stall and in the morning before I take her out). The barn is designed in racehorse style where the horse can hang its head out (no tops).  Do you think I should make a solid top where she can't see out?  Any suggestions for the slamming her body into the door?  This behavior is also carried over into the overall pushy behavior she exhibits.  She seems to have no personal space crowds you when leading.  When you go to enter her stall she will sometimes just run right over the top of you especially when she's acting neurotic and you get in between her and the door.  Lastly I think she realizes if she rams some gates and fences she can break them down.  She seems to have no respect for fences and it seems to be getting worse.  She has gone through the fence three times.  My fences are not that solid, but I think if they were she would be hurting herself way more than she has already.  Today was the worst as she ran through the cross fence that is more sturdy and scraped her self all over (no stitches needed thank goodness).  I have seen her run straight in to fence full speed.  I weaned her recently (a month ago) and brought my gelding over to my place. So its just the two of them and I had them separated by the cross fence.  I am giving up on separating them because maybe that's why she ran through the fence (I was trying to keep her safe b/c I wasn't sure how my 9 year old gelding would bewith her); I wish I had had a gentle mare I could have weaned her with.  I am concerned if this behavior doesn't stop I'll be stuck with a full grown horse that runs through fences and there will be no stopping that (or have to get solid pipe fencing).  Do you think I should just try to add a strand of hotwire?  Any thoughts or suggestions on anything?

ANSWER: Several questions here.

What type of feed is this filly getting?  Have you tried switching her to something different.  Some horses will get so hyped up on certain feeds they become unmanageable.  I have seen even straight oats do this with some.  It could also be the hay you are feeding too, and that would be worth trying some changes there.

Keep good notes on what you are feeding and compare her attitude after each change.  Be careful, of course, as I am sure you will, to not switch abruptly, but rather to gradually add the new grain to the old, until she is getting all new.  Give her a week at least of nothing but the new, and see if you can see any difference.  I would rate her 1-10 on how she is behaving.

Also, have you had a vet do a CBC to see if her hormone levels are off in any way?  That might have something to do with her behavior too.  

And while the vet is there, have him give a thorough exam, as I also wonder if the filly does not have an eye problem?  Have you noticed if she is better on darker days, or lighter?  In barn or out?  Day or night?  One side or the other?  Does she hear well?  Could she have an abscess or brain tumor?

Mulling several things over, and those would be the first types of things I would look at.

Did you and your mother break and train your horses?  Or have a trainer full time, and you all worked with them?  If this is a filly out of mare you had had several foals out of, is this type of behavior really far out for this line?  Or were all of them "extremely hot" and she is just the worst you all have seen.  Or were the others much much calmer and this one is totally out of character?

Barring health issues?  Then it bears looking at her behaviors.

Is this the first time you have had to deal with such a horse?  Are you a more timid person in general, and she is picking up on the ability to buffalo you?  Or are you a stickler for horses behaving, and she is just determined to not listen.

How are you leading her, and what do you do when she has kicked at you?  Do you stand your ground when feeding her, or backing off?  Do you talk to her a lot, or baby her?  And when she starts throwing fits, do you back off, and let her have her way because she seems so determined?

And when she is tearing up fences, do you get the sense it is more a "tantrum" type of thing, or a "fear, hysterical" thing?  When you are leading her, are you clearly defining "your space" or letting her loollygag on the end of the lead?  By that I mean, do you lead her the exact same way, and is your space clearly defined each time, instead of letting her get close one time, and then the next time, being angry and pushing her out of your space.

At this point, you need to have clear guidelines, and stick with them.  While with a more settled or mentally secure horse, it can be more fluid, with a horse like this, you need to stay on one course.  An older horse, or more mellow, you may let come closer, and at other times make the horse stay out of your space, but that isn't something to do here.  Also if you are a talker?  Quit it, as you may be pitching your voice too high and she gets the anxiety when you speak.  And too much talking bugs horses many times.

As to the running over you when leaving the stall, she needs to learn to stay back from door.  You can either carry a small bottle of baby powder in your hand, with top open and when you approach door, just before you open it, squeeze it so a cloud comes out.  Don't talk to her, other than tell her to get back, and then halter her.  And make her wait on you periodically in that when leading or moving, you stop and stand still.  You can also take a Coke can with pebbles in it, and rattle it when opening door, to make her back off of door.  Don't do either of these excessively, as they are to make her more leery of running out, and her hesitation is when you need to be working with her on standing still and waiting for your cues.

If when she gets wound up, you also get wound up, it could be that you are feeding on each other in this. And when you said she gets upset in stall, how long have you left her to "just deal with it" or has she gotten her way and been let out?  If she has always been let out, then she may have been learning she can throw a fit and get releasesd.

I have also seen horses tear right through hot wire, TB's don't do well with it.  Arabians may be the same, or at least this one might, and even if the hotwire does stop her?  She will not have learned to "control" herself, and that is what you will need for her to be a trusted horse.

Please look over the things I suggested about feed, vet.  And much of this can also be attributed to age possibly, and her having the upper hand so far.  Make sure when you handle her that you are as determined and firm as possible in your manner.   

There was a mare in Saddlebred barn, much like you describe this filly, who had to be given B-12 shots monthly, on her it "backfired", instead of pumping her up?  It chilled her out, at least to the point she could be trained and ridden.  But she had been a lot like this as a long weanling too.

If the vet, feed issues, and your reinforcement of your space and your expectations of her don't change this, then I feel a trainer may be only option here.

And if you plan on riding the gelding any?  She could well become a danger there too, as could spook him, and tear herself up if you leave with him.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for your quick response.  I have been very busy as I am a veterinary student, sorry for the delay.  

This filly is being fed Triple Crown Growth and also some oats and the Triple Crown 30% supplement.  She has been on this feed her whole life and all our (my family's) horses have been eating Triple Crown for over 10 years.  I would consider switch her feed, but I really only to prefer fixed formulas (so there is a guarantee on the ingredients)and it is slim pickings here in Oklahoma.  She also gets some alfalfa and grass hay.

I believe she is perfectly healthy.  She seems very neurotic and sometimes her bad behavior (like slamming her door) is related to her being spooked by loud noises.  Sometimes, like right before feeding or before taking her out, she does it (like she's just being impatient and a brat).  Arabians are known for "being crazy or hot", but she is just out of character for our past foals.  We have some hot horses but they are still respectful.  She is just very unruly like you put it a "tantrum".  It's like she is challenging everything to see what she can defeat (the fence, the gate, farrier work).

I have tried to be more consistent with her leading, pushing her out of my space, but I fear I maybe being to forceful with her, but it seems I have to be rough with her to get her to listen.  I did put a chain on her nose for a week and it did seem to help some, but I'm still having problems walking her out of the stall without her running me over or jumping out of the stall.  She will stop for me and stand still like she is calm and waiting and then she jumps out.  I guess it could be something about the door way that she doesn't like?  
The kicking isn't as bad as a used to be.  I used to smack her on the butt with the halter if I was just letting her go.  I try to push her over in the stall and stand as close to her as possible so she doesn't hurt me if she tries to kick while putting her blanket on.    
What do you think about tying her up in the stall away from the door and leaving her stand for 30 minutes to an hour?  Also what do you think of hobbling her, just when she is in the stall and when walking her out the stall?  I have mixed feelings about the hobbling.  I may wait until she is around a 1 or 1 1/2 old to see if she has made improvements before I give her any shots or other similar supplements/drugs.  I'm hoping this is just an immaturity thing and she will grow out of it.  I would send her to a trainer, but what age would that be the most beneficial?  I'm afraid it would be too stressful on her now.  
I just decided to put my gelding in the same pasture with her.  I thought that the benefits would out weigh the risk of her being hurt by him.  They have been together for almost 2 weeks and seem to be fine.
The gelding is not broke, but I do want to send him to training this summer.  Do you think I should bring another horse over from my mother's place to keep her company while he is gone?

Answer
I really would try switching this horse's feed.  Over the years the Triple Crown may have been changed, and it could also be that this filly is just reacting badly to it.

Case in point.  I had a friend who had a TWH that acted much like this.  Older, and trained but just hanging off of the walls and ceilings most of the time.  Startled easily, always looking for something to booger up at.

He was being fed oats, and Bahia grass hay.

Took him over to 10% pellets, and within a day he was chilling out and not looking for monsters.

My friend, who I worked for also, had reining horses, was number 2 ranked non-pro in nation early 2000's.  One gelding?  If he got even one flake of peanut hay, he was dancing the Watusi on the ceiling.  And that was one flake.  But within 15 minutes, you knew he had had it.  And even when he didn't get it?  If you switched him to Dateline's stall, while you cleaned his, and he got his lips on some peanut hay?  A nervous wreck within minutes.

It really is an easy way to check to see if it is causing problems, and could well solve some of this, if not all.  She may be the only horse you will ever have that reacts badly to a feed, but I have seen it frequently in my 50+ years with horses.  Some horses are more easily upset by the feeds than others.  I would hate for this to by something so simple yet ignored, and for the problems to get worse.

As for the stall issues, are you making sure that the door is open wide?  Many times the horse will have hit their hips and that will cause them to rush through a door.  And you should also make her back up from the door too, and walk her in and out several times each time you take her out of the stall or put her in it, as repetition will help here.

I would not do the hobbling thing at this point.  But I would be just as forceful over and over as I needed to be with her.  When you get her attention for a little while, and then back down from being tough?  She figures that you don't really have the guts to deal with her, and she keeps pushing.  Being nice to her will get you nowhere.  She may always have been a dominant filly anyway, no matter who had her.  And since she is getting by with her disrespect, she will get worse too.

She may well always need a firmer hand, so don't be afraid to stay on top of her, and not back down.  That would be the worse thing to do here.

The gelding may help, but of course might be problematic when he goes to training, another horse is a good idea, but you also risk her getting herd bound too?  Just six of one and half a dozen of another.

I would wait on a trainer, as right now, with your schooling, the time needed to be spent with her by you, after she comes home from trainer, might be slim to none.  4 or so sounds more logical to me.

Again, I really feel looking at the feed, and trying something different, along with toughening up on her will help.  And all it would take is one bag too, very cheap to see if it would help here.  10% pellets, mixed in with regular feed, 1/4 to 3/4 first two days, then 1/2 and 1/2 next two days, and then 3/4 to 1/4 two days, and then straight pellets.  

If you can tell a difference?  Then there is the solution. Or a good part of it.

I have seen the feed make such a difference in Saddlebreds, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, and other breeds, enough so that I really do hope you will try it.  And you will be able to tell a difference within a week and sometimes a shorter period.