aggressive behavior in 7 month dog

Question
I do rescue and recently obained two 6 month pups (not litter mates)but from the same woman who has a farm full of poorly kept pit bulls and border collies and labs.  Not a backyard breeder-just a careless person. After a month of care neither will let me pet them.  They don't act afraid but like they are too smart to let me get near them.  They will take treats from my hand but then run off.  They will come when I call but scamper away if I try to pet.  If one is caught off guard and I approach, she will submit to my pets but then leaves as soon as she can.  If I set beside her and pet her for several minutes she will begin to shiver.  

I spayed both dogs and found homes and they have been returned to me--"Boo" for repeatedly finding a way to squeeze out of the fence, not coming in the house at night when it is freezing (she stays inside at my house), and chewing shoes (she does that at my house too).

Holly is coming back tonight because she humps the young teen girls, will have nothing to do with the 10 year old boy who is passionate about loving dogs, is protective of the mother and growls at the kids and snapped at the grandmother who grabbed her by the collar.  They are afraid of her now, although the mother is sad to return her. They have tried giving her time out in the crate when she growls at the girls. She will growl at them for no particular reason, like when they come in the room where the mother is.

I know they have miserable backgrounds that account for their behavior.  Both were covered with mange, poorly nourished, and Boo had hair missing from the length of her back due to a liquid burn.

My situation at home is 2 adult dogs belonging to me who are used to strays, several cats they don't bother, a dog door that opens into a fenced back yard. Everyone is neutered and housebroken, including the 2 pups. I feed once in the morning and give occasional treats.  I have not invested the time in leash training, etc becuase I expected to move them on to new homes as rapidly as possible and turn this part over to the new owners.

Now that I am getting them back I see that I will have to solve some of the social problems including those that Holly developed with her new family.

Please give me some pointers.  I have sent off for a video on correcting aggressive behavior, a training leash, and a short leash as recommended by "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Chossing, Training, and Raising a Dog."  

Answer
Hi Kaye;
first, let me send you to a web site.
go to
www.petloss.com
and read the Rainbow Bridge for rescuers.
The Rainbow bridge is a wonderful poem about a place all our pets wit for us, when they pass on. There is also one for people who rescue animals.
You deserve to include yourself among the people they are talking about.
Back in 1959, I lived in Kansas City mo. there was a neighbor across the street who had a german shepherd. this BROAD would call the dog to her, in a sweet voice, and she had a rolled up newspaper behind her. When the dog came to her, she would beat the devil out of it with that newspaper.
She had an 11 year old son whome she treated the same. She would really beat up on the boy.
I tried to get something done about it, but all the other neighbors who saw all this cruelty would say they didn't want to get involved, and when I got an investigator out there, they lied and said they never saw anything out of the ordinary at that house.
Gutless people make me sick. I can't ignore an animal or child being severely abused.
The way the pups act toward you reminds me of that situation. bet the sweet lady who neglected them so badly also did stupid things like that.Domesticated animals are not born with such a suspicious attitude. they learn it from the way they are treated. It takes a lot of patience to overcome these problems.
When you pet them, they are probably just waiting and fearing for when the abuse begins.
SOMEONE has certainly abused them, or they wouldn't act like that.
I have a wonderful tape. It is The Tellington touch method of animal massage. I got the tapes for dogs and cats. there are tapes for horses, and all sorts of animals.
I have used the tapes to train quite a bit, but mostly, i have used them to calm, and to relieve pain. The tapes cost about $35.00, and well worth it. I have relieved pain from Arthritis and hip dysplasia, and from surgery, and gotten a surgery patient on their feet and doing well in a fraction of the time it would normally take.
Go to this site and read about these massages.
      www.lindatellington-jones.com
You can correct aggressive behavior, fear of thunderstorms, everything with this method of massage. for oldre dogs with Arthritis and/or hip dysplasia, it can give them much more pain relief with fewer pain pills.
My son's dog was run over by a small truck, and it went from his back legs over his head. My son thought he was dead. He spent 2 weeks in the hospital before he could even come home. he needed 24 hour care as he could not even walk down a coule of steps to go outside to potty.
I had to help him walk. You could see pain on his face every step he took. the vet told my son it would be six months at least for the dog to get all his strength and muscle control back to normal.
He came to stay with Granny because his dad had to work so he didn't have someone at home with him. He was a black chow/black lab mix.  I talked to him and told him I was going to help him, that it would hurt a little, but granny wouldn't hurt him anymore than I had to. He tollerated the exercises we had to do to manipulate his legs, and my grand-daughter, who was 5 at the time, gave him a body massage about every 2 hours. She had watched the tapes over and over and learned the right way to massage. In two weeks, he was romping in the back yard with my dogs. when my son took him back to get his stitches out, the Vet was flabbergasted. I sent along the information for ordering the tapes.
It took one massage of about 5 minutes to cure my English Setter of fear of thunderstorms. she was 2 years old them. She is 11 now, and has never been afraid of thunderstorms since.
I would suggest you get this tape for dogs, and if you have cats, that one too. Just for the pain relief they are worth the price.
I would spend a little time doing the massages before I tried to leash train. They are too wary of closeness with people, and that will make the training harder.
First, build up their confidence in you.
This is so sad. We who take in foster animals get some doozies to deal with. How someone can abuse a little animal or a little child is beyond my understanding. I don't even want to understand it. It is just rediculous.
Bless you for trying so hard with these little ones. They will make really good pets and friends for someone.
Of course, the humping is for show of authority. He was humping the girls to show dominance. Probably to dominate before the abuse started. It really sounds like they expect to be abused, doesn't it?
Poor little guys.
I have NEVER used a short leash in training, even when I trained supposedly vicious dogs. I have made nice babies out of some little brats that would bite their owners. I would not tollerate being bitten, and they seem to know it, so I have never been bitten in over 65 years of raising and training dogs.
I don't hit, but if one took a nip at me, I would paddle it's butt. LOl
I have seldom had to spank an animal or a child, but my youngest son had an unusually hard head, and a couple of times, it required a swat on the bottom to bring him around. My little Lhasa, if he can escape when the front door is open, would run across the street, and sit down and make me come and carry him home. I am old and have a terribly bad back, so the last time, I paddled his bottom all the way home, and nagged him big time. He hasn't done that again. that was 2 years ago. Now I threaten him with time-out, and that is enough to make him straighten up and be nice. He dominates our Australian Shepherd, because that one allows him to, and someimes he just gets too big for his britches, and has to be chastized. Little Runt!LOL
I am not familiar with the tapes you mentioned. With it recommending a short leash, I would not put much stock in the information being correct. seems like whoever wrote it doesn't know about training dogs. Anyone can get a book published. not all of them ahould be out there. they mislead people too much.
If you know someone who is interested in A CAREER DOING SOMETHING WITH ANIMALS, BUT NOT WANTING TO INVEST THE TIMEW TO BECOME A VETERINARIAN, SUGGEST THEY LOOK INTO THE CAREER OPORTUNITIES,( sorry, my caps lock was one)
Ranchers who have expensive breeding stock, race horses, show dogs etc, pay big bucks for their animals to be massaged. There are several large horse ranches near me in North Texas, that raise gorgeous race horses. they pay an animal massage therapist BIG bucks to come once a month and massage their horses. Wish I were young enough and physically able to do that. I would be in those training classes in a heartbeat. especially since I have seen what the massages can do for an animal.
I don't know if I have told you anything that will help you. I hope I have.
If you still have questions, write me anytime, and I will give it a shot, until we hit on something that helps.
Charlotte