ITCHY DOG WITH ALLERGIES

Question

Nitro & Turbo   QUESTION: One of my Shi-Poos, named Turbo, age 4, developed environmental allergies (pollen, etc.) 2 years ago.  The scratching, licking and chewing was so bad, the vet put him on steroids.  He developed Pancreatitis and my vet blamed it on a fatty diet.  We were feeding our dogs Fromm at the time.  I believe it was the steroids that caused the pancreatitis and not Turbo's diet as our other Shi-Poo without the allergies is just fine.  After almost losing Turbo and several thousand dollars in vet bills, our sweetie survived.  We stopped the steroids and switched our dogs to Wellness Core Grain-Free Reduced Fat just in case the amount of fat in the Fromm food was too much.  After this past summer Turbo's itchy paws subsided but he was still very itchy everywhere else and would get occasional pimple-like bumps on his back (very few).  I believe Turbo has a food allergy in addition to his summer environmental allergies so I decided to home cook food for my guys so I knew exactly what they were getting and could play with the ingredients.  After switching from poultry to beef as the protein, Turbo very quickly stopped itching almost completely this past month.  So now I want to put him back on a a good commercial dog food (for simplicity) with no poultry.  I'm thinking about the Core Grain Free Ocean Formula but the fat is 14% compared to the Core Grain-Free Reduced Fat at 9%.  My vet thinks even 9% is too much fat for Turbo.  Our vet always wants me to buy the brands they sell which I don't believe are good quality when the first ingredients are things like Potato and Potato starch in Hill's Prescription Diet d/d z/d...and Oat Flour and Brewers's Rice in Medi-Cal.  I learned a lot about dog food ingredients (home-cooked and commercial) over this past year yet I feel as confused as ever with conflicting advice from my vet.  What direction would you recommend I take in feeding Turbo and/or any supplements?  It must be a low enough fat diet so his pancreatitis doesn't come back, with quality ingredients in proper proportion.  Right now the only supplement Turbo gets is a daily Omega 3 capsule.  From spring through fall we add Atarax (hydroxyzine)twice a day to help with his outdoor pollen allergies.
-Desperate Dianne

ANSWER: It's not very often I come out and say this, but given the complexity of Turbo's issue I feel you require a dietary protocol developed specifically for him.  I feel he will do best on a home made cooked diet with correct levels of all nutrients for his conditions and ongoing support as you test diets (which is what I do professionally). If you would be interested in this level of help, please see my Services page at http://www.thepossiblecanine.com/services.htm

I do as much here as possible to help with striaghtforward questions, but I also do this for a living and I know from much experience that it is only really through a personal consult we see the results we need to see.

Please comtact me at catlane@thepossiblecanine.com if you would like to follow through. I feel this question  requires professional guidance.
Catherin


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QUESTION: Thank you for taking the time to read about Turbo.  I guess I should have known after everything we've already been through that there would be no simple solution.  I appreciate that you do this for a living and don't want to take advantage.  However, I just can't afford any more right now.  It took all my savings to get Turbo through his Pancreatitis (over $3,000).  Last Friday cost me another $550 to get their shots and do a blood test on Turbo, just to see that all his levels were OK, and they are.  It sounds like you agree a home cooked diet is better than commercial and I am using recipes from "Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide To Natural Health For Dogs & Cats".  He's supposed to be the Guru at this stuff.  Although not specific to Turbo, I believe the recipes to be simple, complete and Turbo seems happier and more comfortable than he's been in a very long time...so although I'm always fearful, I have to be content with that for now.  I do have one more question that I hope you can advise me on for free.  Dr. Pitcairn's book recommends "balanced dog vitamins" daily with their food and I wonder if you could recommend one.  We currently use "Biologic Vet Bio Vites Daily Multi-Vitamin & Mineral Formula" (powder format for optimal absorption) sprinkled on their food.  But the label only shows the ingredients and not how much of any vitamin is being provided. Should I be content with the fact that the label says "multi-vitamin"?

ANSWER: Hi Dianne,

Thank you for acknowledging that something this complex can't be done with a supplement or a few lines of advice.  I am here to offer as much support as possible on a volunteer basis, but there are lines that I can't cross - pancreatitis-with-allergy would be one. These are both nutritionally responsive conditions... and with two in the same dog..I also much prefer to confer with the vet when a serious illness is present. Thanks for understanding this is my livelihood, and that the amounts I charge are extremely reasonable when you compare with a vet. :)

In terms of your question: Pitcairn has some good stuff in his book good general guidelines for people starting out, and who have healthy dogs. I also have multiple criticisms of his diets. The short answer here would be, using these recipes is better than just winging it, but I am wary of his ingredients and with YOUR dog, especially. Fat levels will be much higher than I'd like to see. I wouldn't adise corn, wheat, brewer's yeast and several other ingredients for any itchy dog.

I would personally be VERY wary of any multi, much less one that doesn't list levels. In my own protocols, I have clients add only what the food dosn't supply, and in the levels that complete the diet and balance with one another. For example, calcium needs not only to be supplied in a level appropriate to the dog's body weigh and age, but in correct ratio to phosphorus. How can one even attempt this if you don't have the amounts?

I'm sorry I can't offer any information about how to supplement this diet. I wouldn't know how to assess what's missing, or even how much he requires of a given nutrient, without much more information. I never use multis in my own diets, so I'm afraid I can only say, at leats please find one that lists the amounts.

Please understand that it has taken me years and years of study and experience to arrive at the method I use. Twelve years back I was using Pitcairn too, in the belief that any home made diet had to be better than any commercial. Unfortunately I believe now that isn't true. An imbalanced home made diet is worse in many cases than a good premium quality food. Your dog should not eat gluten, should have novel proteins, and should have restricted fat and protein levels. I don't feel Pitcairn offers this, and I would rather see Turbo on a premium diet than risk complicating his condition with a mistake, especially since it will be so upsetting to you if you were responsible for it. Please please watch the fat levels. It's a good sign that Turbo seems better, so not to sound negative here, just cautious.

My discussion forum has a lot of information that can help you balance a diet more precisely than using a Pitcairn recipe. Again I want to stress, this is a seminal book and is better for use with a healthy dog then just following any old recipe from the net. I would like to see a more personalized diet for your dog, given his issues, and perhaps the info at the yahoogroup can be of some help.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePossibleCanine-Nutrition

All the best, Catherine
PS Dianne I am not comfortable leaving you in the lurch here. A couple of articles on pancreatitis:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2006&PID=15815&O=Generic

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1580&aid=335

I would also help you look for a suitable dry food if that's the route you wish to go, to ensure nutrient balance that may not be correct with the Pitcairn recipes. Let me know.





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QUESTION: Thanks for the info.  I'm always looking to learn more.
I would really appreciate your recommendation/suggestion for a suitable dry food. I had thought about Core Grain Free Ocean Formula to keep the fat down.  I definitely want to avoid poultry (for now).   ???

Answer
I would consider the CORE formula much too high in protein for a dog with pancreatitis. Since pancreatitis is likely related to the food allergy/IBD situation here I  would place equal importance on the following:
- low fat, your vet is correct that even 9% on a DM basis is a bit high; a home made diet would start with about7% on an ME basis
-  high protein diets contribute to pancreatic inflammation. Protein needs to be restricted as well
- allergies are often to animal products as well as to wheat and corn;  in a home made diet I would be recommending novel foods like ostrich or a whitefish plus quinoa; in a commercial diet look for minimal ingreidnets and novel if at all possible
- you're going to HAVE to feed a lot of carb with this dog, much more than we would look at with a healthy individual. By choosing gluten free, high fiber sources you can derive the most benefit from a programme like this


So I'd be looking for a commercial diet with no gluten; low low fat and moderate (21%) protein, a novel protein if possible. None of the high protein foods like CORE, Acana, EVo or Orijen fit this bill. You might consider this:
http://www.burnspethealth.com/Burns_Brown_Rice__Ocean_Fish_for_Dogs.htm

In cases where a home made diet is absolutely impossible I usually recommend Burn's,and dogs with pancreatitis do well on it, but with food allergy it's hard to know until we test it out.

I hope this helps.
Best wishes, Catherine