do i need to buy 21st Century K-9 Maximum Joint Formula - Level 3

Question
QUESTION: Hi just got a puppy 2weeks ago he is prebreed german sheppard 10weeks been doing great just woundering if the 21st Century K-9 Maximum Joint Formula - Level 3 was good for him ,and if he really needs it thanks Jimmy

ANSWER: This product is for older dogs having mild arthritis in their hips. It is not for growing puppies. You should never give supplements for growth or joints or extra calcium to large breed dogs. It states right on the bottle it is for adult dogs only.

What this dog needs is a high quality food like Science Diet Large Breed Puppy Growth. This food is formulated for large breeds like shepherds who have unique needs to prevent joint and hip problems later in life.

Barring bad genetics, in the past, breeders and dog owners alike unknowingly created a few generations of dogs with terrible dysplasia and elbows by supplementing their food with calcium thinking it would be beneficial.

Back in the 80, early 90's, Hills did a 3 yr research project on what role nutrition plays in causing or alleviating hip problems in large breed dogs. What they found out surprised the veterinary world. They discovered that extra calcium fed causes an imbalance with the phosphorus in the diet and that is what contributed to non-uniform bone growth, overgrowth and joint growth that resulted in hip and elbow problems later in life and also in puppy-hood.

So they came up with the first Large Breed Puppy Growth Formula ever marketed. It has been a great success in reducing the incidence of hip dysplasia for millions of dogs. They go from that at one year old to the Adult formula which is also made to reduce hip and joint issues as the dog ages.

I have spoken to many Shepherd owners that feed this food and they wouldn't feed anything else. I know many lab owners that feel the same way.

It's worth the cost of this food to get a great start for your puppy and build the foundation for his health for life. As I said, nothing can be done about genetics so hopefully he was from two parents with good hips that were OFA certified good or excellent.

To learn more about this food go to :

http://www.hillspet.com/products/science-diet/sd-canine-puppy-large-breed-dry.ht

and to save money on this food take the three bag challenge and get coupons here:
http://www.feedingisbelieving.com/believe/3-Bag-Challenge-Form.html

You can't go wrong with this food. We have been feeding it here for over 30 yrs and the results are amazing. You will see a huge difference in his coat and everything in three weeks with this food- plus you have the peace of mind that you are building a strong, healthy puppy with the Proper amount of nutrients for his breed, not just some hit or miss formula. Hills has been making a researching pet foods for over 50 yrs- not one company comes close to that.

I hope this helps Jimmy. Please write me in three weeks and let me know how he is doing.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the great information i agree total but cant afford 80 dollar dog food.. We ask the pet store and they said he should go on horizon complete adult.. So thats what he's on just woundering if its any good and if that will help any? thanks Jimmy

Answer
The pet store is wrong. I am a small animal nutritionist with 5 certificates in small animal nutrition and I can tell you that the food you are feeding him is WAY too high in calcium and Phosphorus and that he will have issues later in life because of this.

He is NOT getting the nutrition he needs for a puppy and too high of those two minerals for a large breed puppy.

Horizon adult has this for their ratio, and this isn't even the true ratio because they don't give you on the bag or the website what the real analysis is. When it says min. that means it could have a maximum of anything. They don't tell you but Hills does on the bag and the website because they have nothing to hide.

The only way to know the true analysis of dog food is to measure it without the moisture content being accounted for- which is called the Dry Weight Analysis.

In the online analysis for Horizon this is what it says:

Calcium (min) 1.1%
Phosphorus (min) 0.9%

For Hills Science Diet Large Breed, this is the DRY analysis, so it is a true representation of the actual amount:

Calcium     1.20
Phosphorus 0.87

There is no minimum because this is the actual amount.

As you can see the phos level (which affects the bones) is way lower then the adult formula of Horizon.

Here is the whole Dry analysis:
Nutrient
   Dry Matter 1%

Protein          31.3
Fat          16.8
Carbohydrate (NFE)42.0
Crude Fiber     2.8
  
Calcium          1.20
Phosphorus   0.87
Sodium          0.57
Potassium   0.79
Magnesium   0.107
Carnitine   400 ppm
Vitamin C   365 mg/kg
Vitamin E   724 IU/kg
DHA          0.223
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total  1.09

Here is Horizons guaranteed analysis which only means this is the bare minimum but levels can be dangerously high:
Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein (min) 26.0 %
Crude Fat (min) 14.0 %
Crude Fibre (max) 3.0 %
Moisture (max) 10.0 %
Ash (max) 7.4%
Calcium (min) 1.1%
Phosphorus (min) 0.9%
Omega 3 (min)** 0.47 %
Omega 6 (min)** 3.73 %


Not good for sure. Large breed puppy growth is MADE for your dog so that growth is promoted with levels that will not cause malformations of the joints and bones.

Here are the keys to optimal nutrition:
I can't paste it in here so please go here:
http://www.hillspet.com/products/science-diet/sd-canine-puppy-large-breed-dry.ht

You asked me if this Horizon was okay to feed him- I am telling you no, it's not.
You cannot afford Science diet but can you afford the vet bills later from an unhealthy dog? One with bad hips?

You feed only 1 1/4 cup of this food a day. A DAY. That is for a 10 lb puppy. Yes it goes up as they get bigger but you have to measure this food with an 8 oz. measuring cup- not a coffee cup or a can, but a small 8 ounce cup. This food costs pennies a day to feed per feeding and it will last longer than a cheaper brand. It lasts longer because the dog gets more optimal nutrition per feeding and thus eats less over the long haul. This food is so digestible that he will have smaller stools too.

You can feed cheaper food and think that it is costing you less, but when you have to go buy more sooner because your puppy gets not enough nutrition from it then maybe you will rethink it.

Nutrient dense food is more cost effective in the long haul, and you plan on having this dog a long time I hope.

So you can believe what the pet store tells you (and I can guarantee none of them have had any nutritional training) or you can believe what I am telling you for the sake of your puppy.
If your pet store is charging $80 a bag they are ripping off the public. Call around and ask the feed stores, the vets and other pet stores what they sell it for.

It is NOT $80 a bag. 35 lbs of this food (while cheaper this way you should buy it in 17 lb sizes for freshness) is only $42. 95 at petsmart. A 17 lb bag is $29.99. But if the bag lasts you two or three months which is more expensive?

Another thing to consider is the fact that Horizon has never been trial fed to dogs so they really do not know what it does or if it indeed supports a dog's health in the long haul.

So there are the facts Jimmy. Now you can make an INFORMED choice, not one thrown at you by well meaning but clueless pet store employees.

Let me know how it goes.:-)