Ick tank

Question
Thanks for getting back to me.  After I sent you my email, I lost my shark.  My pleco looks like it has tiny white spots, but she is still very active.  I have been doing the temp. raise and the salt, but I also have an Apple Snail.  Does the Ick get on the snail?  I forgot to ask that question.  Also, can I disinfect some of the gravel?  

I am preparing myself for the worse and am going to remove the UGF because I feel that it is not doing its job.  I still have the Whisper filter on it and am 6" air stone for oxygen.  I have already lost 8 fish in the last 2 days and am starting to wonder if they all will die.  How will I know if ICK is totally gone if they all die?  Then what do I do?

Just confused, dont remember ever having this many problems years ago.

Michele

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Followup To
Question -
As of Monday night, I noticed in our 29 gallon tank that our rainbow shark (which is actually black) was flipping on its side like it had ick.  None of the other fish seemed to show any spots.  Tuesday night our Columbian Shark developed many ick spots on his body.  We went and got some Tank Buddy Ick treatments and placed them in the tank, raised the temperature and took out the carbon filters.  Our pH levels have been from 7.2-7.6.  

On Wednesday, we still noticed the spots on the Columbian Shark but they were going away.  At this time, I noticed the small Tiger Barbs biting at the Irridecent Shark and he was starting to lose some fins.  Our Clown Loach was starting to act weird as well.  On Thursday, we lost 2 Neon Tetras and a Danio.  I did a 20% water change and added the carbon back into the tank along with an Ammonia filter in the Undergravel System.  On Friday, we lost the Clown Loach, Cory cat, and Columbian Shark.  I also seperated the Tiger Barbs into a small floating container and they had killed one of them.  I went to the pet store with a water sample and they said that the ammonia levels were ok but the nitrates (I think, she had no clue), were a bit high.  Everyone that I have spoke with said to get the Undergravel Filter out!  I do a gravel sweep and there is still A LOT of waste underneath.  We had bought a Whisper 20-40 Filter a few weeks ago, but I am thinking that it is competiting with the UGF for waste.

As of today, our Irridescent Shark seems to losing more of his fins and is starting to get that cloudy look that he isnt going to make it.  The Rainbow shark is still itching but starting to come back to life.  I have 3 other Danios that dont seem to be effected, our Apple Snail and Pleco our doing well.  We lost our last Neon Tetra this morning.

My questions are the following so bear with me:  When I take out the undergravel fliter, should I remove some of the gravel because it seems to be 1-1.5" thick and in some places thicker and thats why I think the UGF isnt working?!  And if I take some gravel out, how can I disinfect it so there is no ICK left!?  I would like nothing more than to save the fish that are left in my tank and make sure this ICK is totally gone, but I am not getting any clear answers on this matter.
Please help!  I just want to get my tank established again. I am pretty sure the Tiger Barbs are the instigators in all my heartache!

Michele
Answer -
Hi Michele;

Undergravel filters are just fine to use, but you need to have 2 to 4 inches of gravel on top of them. The plastic part isn't where the actual filtration occurs. The filtration occurs in the gravel where the beneficial bacteria lives. Without enough gravel, there isn't enough bacteria to consume waste. The air bubbles move the water through the tubes out and down through the gravel and up the tubes again. The oxygen from the air out of the tubes keeps the bacteria thriving. It is also important not to overfeed the fish. It plugs up the gravel so oxygen doesn't get to the beneficial bacteria. The excess waste in the gravel indicates that is probably what's going on. We all do it from time to time, we just have to remember to clean up after ourselves when we do.

Your extra filter should be picking up the slack for the lack of adequate gravel. However, you still need to cut back on feeding amounts and vacuum the gravel once a week. Remove 25% of the water every time.

As for the ich, make sure this is actually what your fish have. They are parasites that look like tiny white specks on the fish. The most effective way to get rid of it is without medication, but you can continue to use the meds along with the method I use if it makes you feel better. It just isn't necessary and is less stressful for the fish without medication. Medications irritate the fish and can make them feel sick in a different way than the parasites do. Medicine burns their skin, eyes and gills. The natural method I use doesn't cause any of those stresses.

The ich curing method is simple, but if the nitrites are  elevated they will have to be dealt with by making a 25% water change every other day. If the fish store people have no clue, get your own kits and I can tell you how to use them. You need the 4 following kits; Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH. Ammonia and nitrite should always be "zero". The fish can get very sick from nitrite and ammonia. Nitrate can be up to 40 ppm. It is much less toxic than nitrite and is present in all established tanks. PH should be 6.5 to 7.5. Any of these can be corrected with 25% water changes (if off balance). Once they stay in the safe zones then your tank is out of trouble. You can then make water changes and gravel vacuumings every week as regular maintenance.

The natural ich cure;

Raise the temperature of the water to 82 degrees and leave it there for 2 weeks. Add an extra air stone in the tank to provide more oxygen for the fish during this time. (Higher temperatures make the oxygen saturation in the water go down). You might need an extra air pump if the one used for your UG is running at maximum just for that.

While the temperature is rising, add aquarium salt to the tank. It needs 1/2 teaspoon for every gallon of water. Every time you make a water change, add more salt for the water that was replaced. For instance, you will be removing about 7 gallons when you do the 25% changes. This means you will add 3 1/2 teaspoons back to the tank. (at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon). This keeps the salt concentration the same all the time. The fish will be strengthened by the electrolytes in the salt and their slime coatings will thicken so the parasites can't latch on to them anymore once they fall off. Salt also weakens the parasites, as does the higher temperature. Keep this whole thing up for 2 weeks and it will eradicate the little jerks.

Remember to cut back on feeding the fish. Make sure that whatever food you put in is gone in 5 to 10 minutes. If there is food laying anywhere after that time, feed less food the next time until you can regulate it to an amount they can finish in the appropriate time.

Oh, and don't waste your money on those cartridges that go in the top of the UG filter tubes. The amount of carbon or ammonia resin in them is so small that it does no good whatsoever. It only makes money for the store. They will also restrict the flow of water a bit and keeps your filter from working as efficiently as it should. I lost many sales on those in the store once people knew the facts about them. It's just one of those items that keeps cutomers coming in to a store. That's the goal, and it works. The manufacturers and retail stores love it, but it cheats the consumer. That's my opinion on them.....

After the 2 weeks is up, let the temperature fall one or two degrees every day until you get it to 75 or 78, whatever you like it to be for your fish on a long term basis. You will not need to add salt anymore, and your regular weekly water changes will slowly remove the salt as time goes by. Leave the airstone in if you like it. The extra oxygen will help your tank stay cleaner by providing extra oxygen to the bacteria that keeps the system clean.

Followups welcome

At Your Service;
Chris Robbins

Come on over and join us on the freshwater fish forum at About.com to get even more information too;
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/questionsanswers/a/naavigateforum.htm

My member name is ChrisR62. See You There!  

Answer
Michele;

This is not the time to make major changes in filtration! It will stress the fish further and may cause toxins to elevate, pushing more fish closer to death. Disinfecting any of the gravel will kill the beneficial bacteria in the system so toxins will rise for sure. Even without the UG, the gravel has beneficial bacteria that the fish need. In my opinion, there will be no benefits to sterilizing it. Only serious drawbacks. You have to gradually get the gravel cleaned up from excess waste by doing partial water changes of 25% daily or a few times a week. Any more than 25% at a time is too hard on the fish.

You are never going to get rid of the ich spores in the gravel. They exist in almost every aquarium and water system in the world. Even well water can have it. Chlorine or chloramine treated municipal water systems still have it also. Every time you make a water change the spores come into your tank. There is simply no avoiding it. What you can avoid is an infection of them on your fish by not allowing them to be subject to stress. Making regular water changes every week and not overcrowding or overfeeding are the key elements.

Followups welcome

At Your Service;
Chris Robbins