starting again after 7+ years

Question
QUESTION: I haven't had an aquarium for 7+ years and I just set up a 90gal freshwater tank.  I don't remember ever "cycling" the tanks when I had them before (2 - 40gal breeders) and I never really had any issues with them.  So...I prepared the water with a bottle of (don't remember the name) stuff that takes the chlorine etc out of tap water and let the tank filter for 24 hrs to clear it up....ooops!  I see now that that was a no-no seeing as how proper cycling is all over these boards!  I added a male beta yesterday, which I've had in one of those "Beta aquariums" they sell at Walmart since Christmas, and he seems to be doing much better.  I also added 3 Bala sharks, one of which didn't seem to be doing very good when I put him in the tank.  

Today, my tank is cloudy (from not cycling it) and the one shark I suspected was not well, is almost dead.  I removed him to the beta bowl because the other sharks where picking at him. He has red spots near each of his underside and tail fins.  Also on one side of him, half of his body looks white-ish like it's rotten.  I bought them at Petsmart and they are guaranteed for 2 weeks thankfully.  Would it be wise to replace the lost fish? since I was told they do best in 3's or more?  Or should I wait until the tank cycles?  The other two Balas seem to be fine.  

I'm concerned about the tank now.  Since I didn't cycle it, what should I do from here?  Here are my test results:

Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Hardness: between 75-150 mid soft/hard
Alkalinity: 80 moderate
pH: ~7.8    Is this too alkaline?
Water temp: 76

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Stephanie
ANSWER: Hi Stephanie
Welcome back to fish keeping lol :)  I remember years ago my mom started a 55 gallon fish tank.  (I now know) she did everything you weren't supposed to do, and her fish lived years and years till she gave the whole tank and fish away....anyway....

You need an ammonia test kit as well.  Sounds like you have the dipstick test kit.  When they run out, buy one of the dropper test kits, especially with the larger tank.  They're more accurate then the dipstick ones.  Cost more, but definitely worth it.  Plus you'll need to monitor the ammonia for the cycling process.  Don't worry about the ph and alkalinity, unless you're planning on keeping wild caught fish or sensitive ones like discus.

As for the tank, my opinion what I would do, is return the fish to PetSmart.  They do have a great return policy I will say.  But, they should've questioned you about how long your tank was set up.  I would tell them you didn't cycle your tank and want to return them so they don't die, and purchase them after it's done cycling.  They're pretty good about that, and I can't imagine them giving a hard time.  If they do, get the manager involved and tell them they shouldn't have sold you those fish for an uncycled tank.  
Remove the betta, put him back in his old home for now(not sure how well he'll fair with the bala sharks when they get bigger)...just a thought there.  Take the balas back, and drop one or two cocktail or salad shrimps into the tank, and just let them rot in there.  They'll put off ammonia which will continue the cycle process, since there's probably already ammonia in there from the fish.  The beneficial bacteria that grows needs to have an ammonia source-so that's what the shrimp is for.  Don't add any fish till the tank's completed it's cycle, and then do it slowly to allow the bacteria to catch up to the new fish/bioload.  I'm guessing you already know about the cycle process, sounds like you've been reading :)  Let me know if you have more questions, I have a good site about cycling which explains it pretty good.  

Good luck with your new tank!  Let me know if you have more questions.

Christy


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I have been reading on the cycling of a tank.  Most things I've read cite 6-8 weeks, but some places say you SHOULD have fish in there for the ammonia they put off.  So if I use the shrimp, how long do you propose the cycle should take?  Do I just wait until they've completely rotted away?
ANSWER: Put the shrimp inside a pair of nylons/pantyhose with the foot/leg cut out.  This is supposed to help keep it somewhat together, it gets pretty messy.  I would just leave the shrimp in until you start showing nitrates present and ammonia and nitrites read 0.  There has to be an ammonia source in the tank for the bacteria to survive.  Even when the tank is done cycling, you still need to add fish fairly soon to keep the bacteria alive.

Other ways to do a fishless cycle, using pure ammonia(which is hard to find lately).  When you shake the container, it should not suds up.  With smaller tanks, you can use just plain old fish food.  Just "feed" the empty tank, but this doesn't tend to put out as much ammonia as the shrimp would.  Or pick up a product called BioSpira.  It'll almost instantly cycle your tank.  You add it the same time you add the fish.  It's a bottled bacteria-the only one that really works.  It must be kept refrigerated as well.  I believe it cuts the cycle process down to a week or so from what I've read from others that used it.  Or, the same concept as that, if you have a friend with an aquarium that's healthy, you can use some of their gravel, or filter media in your tank.  That will help to jump start the bacteria in your tank, and cut down the cycle time considerably as well.  
Using the other methods, shrimp or ammonia will take anywhere from 4-8 weeks to cycle a tank.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,

I'm back, lol, and I need some serious help.  We were at Walmart last night and my 4 yr old son HAD to have a puffer fish.  I knew I shouldn't have, and the associate who helped us proved unknowledgeable, however, I figured, 1)they're freshwater if they sell them here so they should be fine in my tank, and 2)anything to settle my son down since he's been dying to pick out his own fish! lol  

So, this is my dilemma and I hope you can help me....

I've been researching them online since yesterday to find out that they are FW as juvies and BW as adults...yikes!  I also saw in some places that they are strictly FW (indicated by the Nigroviridis)  Can you clarify this?  I have NO experience with brackish tanks so this could be a challenge....

I also made the mistake of listening to the same associate who said they would be okay with a Betta...whoa...Why does Walmart even bother to sell fish?  Anything to make a buck I guess, but it seems they would be giving all those bucks back in refunds!  I returned him to his little bowl and will be getting him a bigger tank with some angel fish or something.  Do you thing angels would nip at him since they are semi-aggressive also?

Back to these darn puffers....  Tank mates:  people have recommended Gobies or African Cichlids and some recommended they be kept in pairs but some say they are particularly aggressive towards others of the same species....I bought him 2...Should I separate them?   

Food:  I read juvies will eat pellets or frozen plankton/brine shrimp, but not for long.  Snails are best to keep teeth down but what kind of snails?  If I get large snails, larger than the GSPs, will they kill them or will I have luck with keeping them for tank clean up (at least until the GSPs outgrow them)?

Well,  wish me luck.  I suppose I need to read up on brackish tanks now that I own eventual brackish fish....after my Bala ordeal, I'd hate to tell my son we hav e to take his fish back too!

Thanks for any help you can give.

Stephanie

Answer
Hey Stephanie
I've sent a complaint to Walmart before about the way their fish are kept.  There are some good stores-I've heard anyway lol, but the one I go to there's always dead fish and live ones eating on them, sick/diseased fish, etc.  I've also read on a forum about them selling GSP's as freshwater.  I don't know why they sell fish, they really shouldn't especially since they usually don't have  knowledgable employees....my advice, don't buy from them.  

Yep, you are right, they will eventually need a high end brackish-almost full marine tank.  Here's a good site if you haven't found it yet, www.thepufferforum.com .  Lot of good info on them there.  It'll tell you how to slowly convert them to brackish as well.  It needs to be done slowly for them to adjust, and for your beneficial bacteria as well.  

One thing to consider, you could return them, buy a smaller tank, like a 10 gallon for your son(walmart has the basic set up for about 30., just need a heater for the winter time), and get him a couple dwarf puffers.  They're cheap, not as colorful, but they are true freshwater puffers.  They're the only freshwater puffers I've seen around stores, there are a few others, but I only see the dwarves.  Just something to think about....Or, I think they need 15-20 gallons per puffer, buy a smaller 30-40 gallon tank for them alone.  

If you do keep them, definitely no go with the betta lol.  I also would'nt advise the betta with the angels.  Angels can be aggressive, especially when breeding, plus they have the long fins as well which the betta may go after.  It may work out, but I would say not a good idea.    

I have a GSP also, I was able to keep a knight goby(also brackish) in with him.  That one ended up dying on me years ago, forget why...now my puffer is alone, and seems content with that.  I have also read the same, that as they get older they don't tolerate others, especially their own in the tank with them.  It may work out ok with a larger tank like yours, but you're going to be limited on what you can put in the tank with them. I wouldn't put African cichlids in with them, they aren't brackish fish.

For feeding, I would recommend either live brine shrimp(which can be hard to find sometimes), or better go with frozen foods.  I rotate mine with frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, frozen krill, and on occasion I'll cut up a small cocktail or salad shrimp and feed that.  You can buy those fairly cheap in the frozen food section of the store, small bag of frozen shrimp is about 4.00. Just be sure to rotate their food during the week to give them variety.  Snails are good, but you need to get the smaller baby snails.  I used to go to Petsmart when I lived in Florida, they used to give me their pond snails(the ones considered pests) for free, I'd always buy plants or something else as well.  I've tried growing/breeding them on my own, but have had no luck lol.  People want to kill them and get rid of them, and I'd welcome them....They probably won't do well in a brackish tank though, because they're freshwater.  So, just keeping them in the tank probably won't work.  And yes, they'll kill the snails still if they're large.  

Well good luck :)  Be sure to look over that link I posted above, like I said, lots of good info there.  Let me know if you have more questions :)

Christy