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QUESTION: I have just set up a new 55 gal. aquarium with the intention of having african cichlids. I have been told many different things about when it will be safe to add the fish. Must I use some other fish first, to cycle the tank? If so what and how many? I hate to get fish I don't want and then have to find somewhere to put them when I get my cichlids? Any help you can give me will be appreciated!
Thanks, Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail!
I am so glad you asked this question before adding any fish!
There is a method calling "fishless cycling" of your tank.
You will need a test kit that tests for ammonia, nitrites and nitrAtes. You will also need an ammonia source.
You can try to get PURE, CLEAR ammonia from any super market or maybe at a place like Home depot or Lowe's. It cannot contain any surfactants or anything else. If you shake the bottle and it foams it most likely has something in it.
Add about 5 drops at a time to the tank water. After the first 5 drops test for ammonia. Add ammonia until you get a reading of 5ppm ammonia.
Do this every morning. After about 4 days test for Nitrites.
ALWAYS TEST WATER BEFORE ADDING AMMONIA.
Keep adding the ammonia daily until you see a nitrite reading. When you see the nitrites, reduce the ammonia to 3 drops a day. Finally, after maybe 2 weeks or less, you will see the ammonia hit zero. Then the Nitrites will soon hit zero and you may see nitrAtes at about 5ppm. At that point your tank is cycled. The next morning, check your water and make sure there is till no ammonia or nitrite and add fish THAT day after a 25% water change.
If you cannot add fish that very day, you need to keep adding at least 2 drops of ammonia to keep the cycle going.
P.S. If you cannot find PURE ammonia, you can also try using raw shrimp you get from the market. Use about 6 in a filter bag and hang it near the filter flow. This will also create ammonia.
Please feel free to question me as you go along.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for your great response! Do you think that this is the best way to do it and the fastest? I have rated you 10 across the board. Thank you again.

Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail, and thanks for the great rating!
Most people do fishless cycling with ammonia or shrimp. It can take some time and you must remember that we are adding a chemical into the water to try and reproduce fish waste. That's what it comes down to. The ammonia causes good bacteria to grow. The kind of bacteria we need to have a fish hobby.
There are only 2 other ways to cycle a tank.
One is with fish, and the other is IF you can find BIO SPIRA.
BIO SPIRA is the actual bacteria you need to cycle a tank. If you can find a pet store that sells it and it is refrigerated when you buy it, you can use that and in 2 days you are ready for fish.
If you decide to use a fish, I would suggest a fish that can take the punishment, like a Pleco catfish. You can keep him too when the cycle is done but there are no guarantees he will make it.
To answer your question, BIO SPIRA is the safest thing but not cheap and hard to find.
Let me know what you do. If you do the ammonia way I can walk you through it. I am on line a lot, but sometimes a question may go as long as a day for me to get to.
#1 Bio Spira
#2 ammonia or shrimp
#3 Use a catfish that you will keep.
Hope this helps you!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello again, Joe,

Well, after I got your advise I decided to go buy a test kit and test the water. I found that the ammonia in the tank, and apparently the well also, has ammonia levels so high, it is off the chart. So I took it to the fish store and had them check it. They got the same reading, and the nitrites and nitrates were both high as well. He reccommended that I try an ammonia remover that goes in the filter,( looks like little white rocks), which I did. It has been in there now since Friday, I tested today and no change. I am very discouraged. I really want an aqaurium, I have also spent quite a bit of money, and I am on social security. It looks like my private well will not support this activity. Do you have any other suggestions for me? I sure hope so and I will appreciate any help you may have.

Thanks, Gail
ANSWER: Hello Gail.
I have a well also and it is hard but you can do this.
First thing is ammonia removers do not work. Neither does ammo lock or anything else.

If you have ammonia, nitrites and nitrates that means your tank is in a cycle and should be done soon. Keep checking the water and when the nitrite and ammonia go to zero you are ready to stock your tank.
I don't understand how there is ammonia coming from your well water?
Are you absolutely sure you got an ammonia reading from your tap water?
All I can think of is live plants. Get some inexpensive plants for your tank. The best kind is something called hornwort. It just floats on top of the water. Leave the tank light on 8 hours a day. Plants "eat" ammonia.
I would also try putting a good hearty fish in the tank so the bacteria can grow and get this thing settled.
You can get a catfish, like a Pleco (sucker fish).
Social security is what I am on too and I know monthly checks aren't fun.
Do the best you can...go slow....get the plants and the catfish and try that.
Please let me know and I will also research this further about your well water and see if there is anything you can do about that.
Are you in a private community? Is there someone like the county you can call and tell them about ammonia in your well?
I once had well water with very high acid and they came and fixed it.
Good luck Gail, and stay in touch.


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I just wanted to really thank you again so much. I will go buy that tomorrow and try it. I am worried about the ammonia being in my well water, we drink it, and it sure killed those fish in a hurry! I live out in the country and just have a private domestic well that we put in about 12-13 years ago. If you have any other ideas, or are able to research this thing I will be very grateful.

Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail,
I also live "way back in the woods" and have a private well.
I am still trying to figure out how ammonia gets in your well?

Are you using a good test kit?
Don't use test strips because they don't work.
Do you have any farm animals that are near where the well is?
Let me know. Please write back because that is the only way I can get answers to you.
Good luck!


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Yes, I am only using test strips made for the fish tank. Yes, I live near cattle, they are in the fields around my house. I know from what I looked up that it can be caused from that and also from the septic seeping if it is too close, I don't think it is. I don't really know who to contact about it, but I know I don't have alot of money if it is going to take a major fixing. I want fish still!!
Thanks again, Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail and thanks for the follow-up.
I did some research and wells can contain ammonia even if it isn't from septic or cattle.
Test strips are not accurate, but let's go with the fact that you have ammonia in your well.
Get the live plants and a healthy catfish. Don't do any water changes until you see the ammonia and nitrite drop. Then add your other fish that you want. After a week, then do a 20% water change and each week there after. In the meantime, this may be a hassle, but try and get enough containers to store well water. Enough to do your 20% water changes. Keep the containers uncovered and at room temp.
20% of 55 gallons is roughly 10 gallons. If you cannot do that, forget it.

Here is what I would do as far as your own health is concerned.
Call your local health department. They have a toll free number. They have a special department that deals with drinking water. Explain that you are getting ammonia readings from your well and ask for a remedy. It could be a simple fix. Maybe they will tell you to add clorox to your well. Then, when you do water changes, you will have to use a dechlorinator, but that is cheap.
Let me know the readings you got on ammonia? Did you already tell me that?
I think you said it was off the chart, but I really need to know what the number is.
Once the bacteria grows in your tank from the catfish, the ammonia will disappear. I am sure you can have fish.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I am not clear on why I am to store the well water in open containers? Also, I don't get chemistry very well, but if the water itself has the ammonia, then it isn't cycling, right? You think the plants and fish will take it out? If so how long do you anticipate that taking. I sure appreciate all your help. You are great!
Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail,I wish I could talk to you on the phone and explain this but email is all we have. It's not an easy thing to understand.
In order to have cycling, you need ammonia. A lot of people just stick fish in there and some die and some live.
The ammonia is created by fish urine.
Some people use a fishless cycle adding ammonia to the water and waiting for the cycle to complete.
The cycle is like this:
Ammonia = Nitrites = Nitrates = a cycled tank.
So, ammonia is in the tank and GOOD bacteria grows and created nitrites which "eat" the ammonia. The by-product of the nitrites is nitrates and they turn and "eat" nitrites. So we have a triangle of chemistry.
As far as storing the well water in opened jugs is so that any impurities will escape before you change out the water. In other words, you will use this stored water to replace whatvever you take out each week.

As far as the plants being added?
I have seen people adding live plants and fish all at the same time and never losing one fish. The plants eat the ammonia.
Gee, I wish I could just be there and help...
Anyway, don't hesitate to keep questions coming.
I am patient and can help you.
Maybe the ammonia already being in your tank is a good thing...at least for fishkeeping?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hi Joe,

I hope you remember me. I am still frustrated, no fish. The ammonia has decreased some down to 4.0. I have added Ammo lock and AmaQuel. The nitrates and nitrites are still off the chart, and it has been several weeks with not much improvement. I tried adding three danios, at the request of my fish store, they began to die in about a half hour, I saved 2 and put them in my daughters small tank. I really want fish and dont understand why it is taking so much longer than everyone said it would? Any more suggestions you may have for me? I don't suppose doing a partial water change would help at this point?
ANSWER: Hi Gail. Of course I remember you. Sorry for all the problems you are having.
First thing is that ammo lock or anything else like that doesn't work. Save your money.
I guess you couldn't get the Bio Spira?
OK, here is what I would do.
Do a 75% water change to drop all levels of toxic chemicals in the tank.
If you still cannot get Bio Spira, get your self some live floating plants if you haven't already done that.
Buy Stress Zyme. It is not too much money.
Put that in the tank according to directions.
You need to put a catfish in there. A Pleco. They are not expensive either. They are tough.
Then just monitor the ammonia, etc., and when all drops to zero, you can add other fish. For now, nothing but a Pleco catfish

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Wouldn't the 75% wter change start the whole thing from the begining since the ammonia is in my water? Or am I going to have to buy 50 gals of bottled water?
ANSWER: Hi Gail,
I wouldn't worry about the ammonia in the water from the well.
The catfish is certainly going to be adding more ammonia on it's own anyway.
I want to get all the ammo lock and stuff out of there.
Some cheap live floating plants and a Pleco should do it.
Also, you can try about aquarium salt at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water to help the catfish throught this.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Again,

I did the 75% water change and I even used distilled bottled water. It has been since Friday I think, and I just took a reading and everything is still elevated to the max! I don't get it at all. Also everyone I talk to tells me something different. I have been advised to put a couple african cichilds in as they can take the hard well water, they died in about 15 minutes. Another store said to put danios, that they are the hardest, they also started dying in maybe a half hour, I did save 3 of these by taking them out immediately and moving them to my daughters small tank. They are doing well. Next I was told to try feeder gold fish, they lived 3 days. Now when you say Pleco catfish, do you mean a plecostamis? No stores no what a pleco is? It has been five weeks, and I am no further along.PLEASE HELP!!
I tried the plants also, but the under gravel filter makes
so much water movement that I think it tore them up.I am so
disappointed, I would love some fish. What if I try the plecostamis and a few larger gold fish? What did you mean about aquarium salt?

Thanks so much
ANSWER: Hi Gail...
First thing, yes, I meant plecostamis. Sorry for not being clear.
I don't know what is going on. I have never heard of fish dying in an hour from ammonia.
Ammonia poisoning could take days to kill fish.
What temperature do you have the tank water at?
Do you let the fish stay in the bag for a while and let the bag float in your tank before you add them in?
I am baffled?/?

I mentioned aquarium salt because it helps fish thrive. 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of tank water pre-dissolved and put in the tank.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sounds like you are giving up on me! I could hardly blame you. Do you still think the Pleco would stand a chance? Anything else I can try? What is the hardiest fish known to man? Yes I floated the last ones, the gold fish, for over an hour, the nI added some of the tank water gradually to the bag to futhter acclamate them. I use a thermometer, keeping it at about 78 I had unplugged it for the gold fish and it went to about 72-74. There must be some miracle out there. Do you know of any aquarium clubs or anything like that. So far everyone tells me something diferent. I do really appreciate all your time helping me.
Gail
ANSWER: Gail, I never give up.
I still think the pleco would make it in that tank.
I am just baffled why the others die so fast?
I would try to get ammo carb and use that instead of carbon. Add the Pleco the next day and take ammonia readings at that time and let me know the results.
You may have to use ammo carb all the time instead of carbon. You will need to change the ammo carb every week.
It is better anyway.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I will try the ammo carb. Is it something that goes in the filter or? The readings as of now are, Ammonia 8.4; and nitrites and nitrates are both off the scale!

Thanks again,
Gail
ANSWER: Hi Gail,
I don't remember what kind of filter you have?
There must be carbon in your filter, right?
Most of the time it is in a bag of some sort.
If you have a filter that uses cartridges instead of filter bags, just buy the ammo carb and a few filter media bags, fill one up and stick it in the filter.
8.4 ammonia?
I have never in my life heard of this being that high.
Nothing can live in there. Forget the Pleco until the ammonia is zero.
Maybe you should try joining this forum I belong too?

WWW.AquariaCentral.com
Try it....there may be somebody there who has the fix for you if the ammo carb doesn't work. I really have never heard of ammonia at 8.4.


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well Joe, not much has changed. Yesterday the ammonia was down to 4.0, however the nitrites and nitrates are still off the chart. I have used up a whole test kit, and still no fish. I am wondering if you might know of or if you could research if there is any type of ugly, unknown fish that can live in there. PLEASE! I am so disappointed.

I know in the beginning of our correspondence you had told me about fish cycling, which I didn't need since I have plenty of ammonia.No what can I do. There most be something, someone somewhere that can help.

Thanks for all your help.
ANSWER: Hi Gail.
I am just about out of ideas. If ammo carb didn't remove the ammonia, then there must be something in that tank creating it. Even if your tap water has ammonia, eventually it will go away.
Nitrites and nitrates off the chart would "eat" the ammonia.
That's what they do. Nitrite takes care of ammonia and the bi-product is nitrate which takes care of the nitrite.
That's the cycle. Your tank is producing ammonia somehow?
Did you ever clean the glass with glass plus or anything?
Tank glass is pourous and the ammonia stays in the glass for a very long time.
What's in your tank as far as gravel?
What about the filter? What's in there? What kind of decorations do you have?


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I have natural color small to medium sized gravel, for sunstrate.. I have a few plastic plants, A ceramic large piece of drift would, and a resin, I guess, rock sold for tanks. I have a two plate under gravel filter with two power heads 200. As well the type of bio filter that hangs on the back of the tank, not sure what they are called.

When it is cycling, how high do the nitrites and nitrates usually get. Since I used also the ammolock, it says something about not changing the test reading though. No I did not clean the glass, only wiped with the foam brushes sold for that. no glass plus. Are there any aquatic experts or someone that you might ask or know of? I know we never had these problems years ago when we had our 200gal tank.

THERE MUST SOMETHING OUT THERE. ANY FISH THAT MIGHT LIVE??

I really appreciate all your time and help on this, it is upsetting.

thanks again, Gail

Answer
Gail,
I have 2 final suggestions, one I already may have mentioned.
For about 9 dollars, there is a product made by Jungle Labs called ammonia and chloramine remover It is a DeChloraminator. It is supposed to work in minutes. I don't like using chemicals but your situation is extreme.
With this product, if it works, you will also have to pre-treat any water from your tap when you do water changes.

The other idea I may have mentioned is to call the Dept of Health and ask if they know of a way to remove ammonia from your well.
Other than that, bottled water is all that's left.
Let me know if the Jungle works. It is called "A DeChloraminator"