Re: Oranda Gold torn fins

Question
QUESTION: Hi Karen, Peppy - an oranda gold, is about 6 months old and 2 weeks in my aquarium.

Yesterday i noticed that her rear fins were torn and there was some white power like substance on its torn tail. There is a faint black lining along all of its fins (they have been there since we got her).

I took her out and left her in a fresh bowl of water overnight. Today morning she seems to be dull and sinks to the bottom. As with regular feeding, i gave her less food today (about half the size of her eye).

But her torn fin is very prominent. So today morning, after much contemplation, i put her back in the aquarium. I thought she'll have company and plus the filter will help since i stay out of the house 14 hours at a stretch.

I am not sure if she has a disease. but i thought she has digestive problems. What should i do?

Thanks,
sam



ANSWER: Hi Sam, sorry to hear about Peppy,
I'm afraid the Oranda's fins may either have ammonia burns or finrot. Either problem is serious, and both are caused by poor water quality.

The best thing you can do now is to change the water as often as you can. It would be good if you could test your water also, checking the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates helps narrow down the possible triggers whenever your fish seem sick or behaving off-color.
I would start doing daily 90% water changes for the poor Oranda. Drain the water close to the fish's dorsal fins, in other words leave just enough water in the tank to keep the goldfish comfortable. Then refill with fresh dechlorinated and equal in temperature to the tank water. A little warmer is fine but never colder. Goldfish are big polluters and these water changes are essential since she is sick.

Leave her in the tank you have, bowls would just be a horrible pollution trap for her if she stays in one for very long and it will just make things worse.

Start the massive daily water changes (you can even do them twice a day if can manage--just make sure the replacement water is treated properly and as close to the tank's temp as possible before adding it to the tank) and determine whether your fish has fin rot or just ammonia burns. You can see pictures of fish with fin rot here-
http://www.fishjunkies.com/Diseases/finrot.php

Typically with finrot the fish's fins will be discolored and seem to be rotting away in pieces. It will require treatment in the form of changing lots of water every day in the aquarium, and adding an antibiotic to battle the bacterial infection. I would probably try some aquarium salt and Melafix. If the infection seems to persist you may have to use something stronger.

As for ammonia burns, they usually will heal with time along with good care. Changing water always helps. Also use a water conditioner such as Amquel+ which will neutralize ammonia and help everything. Although please don't rely on it 100% to keep your fish safe. Doing water changes will help tremendously.

I really hope this helps!
Best of luck with the Oranda, I hope she recovers!
Karen~


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Karen,

I got some salt for their aquarium and put it in yesterday night. I also got some Dimilin for the water.

Today i noticed that all the 4 fishes are starting to develop the same white spots. Although i don't see the fins ripped just yet, but i can see the edges of the fins losing color (plain white). The fishes don't seem dull though. They are still excited and move about. They are eating too.

Should i quarantine Peppy? What about her food and water?

Also - in the tank i have 3 Orandas and 1 Goldfish - is that a problem. They all have entered the aquarium at different times. I haven't seen them fight with each other though and i spend considerable time watching them.

I will start the water changing immediately. At least once a day. Should i continue with the salt? And dimilin? What should be the dosage of Dimilin. The aquarium has about 40 Ltrs. of water.

Appreciate all your help.

thanks,
sam

ANSWER: Hi Sam,
I wouldn't use Dimilin if these were my fish. Dimilin is used as an insecticide and it can be very dangerous to fish. It also may not treat Ick Parasites. I've never heard reports of it being used for ick either. Its typically used more for fish lice than anything. If your fish are developing white spots and look as if they have been sprinkled with salt then unfortunately it sounds like they have ICH parasites. You can see a picture of ick plus read more about it and the available treatments here:
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php

If its actually the fins that are damaged then you may be having severely water quality issues. Four goldfish in such a small tank can be a real hazard. Please try to do 50-75% water changes at least everyday for several days. Their condition may not even need meds but just clean water to heal on their own. Try these water changes before you do any kind of medicating. Mis-medicating can do much more harm than good when there is actually no problem at all.

I don't think Peppy would have to be Quarantined. Just take the best care possible you can of her. Also, if you can test the water that would be great. You could put some aquarium salt in the water if you want for about a week, remember salt doesn't have to be redosed and it is not filtered out. When you do water changes just replacement the amount of salt according to however many gallons you took out. Once you are done treating with the salt you can do several water changes to remove it and revert your tank back to freshwater. But I wouldn't do the dimilin, its too risky in my opinion.

I really hope this helps,
Best of luck as always!!!
Karen~

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Karen,

Your advice really helped. The other 2 (1 GF and other Oranda) have recovered. Unfortunately Fiona - another Oranda, the eldest in the tank, passed away. I think it was due to the Dimilin i had added to the tank. She would have grown to be a gorgeous fish. :(

Now Peppy's white spots are completely gone. I have been changing the water and maintaining a 28 - 29 Deg C temperature in the water.

As if problems dont end ...

Now Peppy has developed black patches on either side of her body. Its as if the white spots converted into black. If you can send me your email id - i will send you her pic. Also her fin tips have turned black. I saw some fishes at the petstore like that and the store guy said that its a genetic design of the fish. Supposed to make it look pretty.

I have quarantined Peppy into a separate open faced bowl with about half ltr of water. Yesterday, I gave her a 30 min Salt water bath in the same water quantity with 1 Tb spoon of rock salt. But today the black patch seems to have grown. She seems to be eating well and moving about. Nothing in her behaviour is suspicious.

Today morning, I put about half teaspoon of Dimilin into her water, let her swim around for 15 mins and then changed the water completely. Temperature has been maintained.

I am not sure if Peppy is genetically not a good fish or i am doing something wrong in keeping her properly. Harry (the goldfish) and Chilly (another oranda) seem to be doing fine in the tank.

I dont stop the filter or the pump and it runs throughout the day. I have reduced their food intake. I feed them small cubicals of worm food (from a petstore). I don't let it float in the water, i put my hand in and rub the thing till it starts disintegrating into the water. The idea is to only leave it there for about 5 mins of their eating.

Any help from you will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam

Answer
Hi Sam,
I'm sorry to hear about the two goldfish that have passed away. It might have been stress or something you could not have prevented.

If Peppy's white spots are in fact ick spots. Make sure to -not- stop treatment when they dissapear. The fish usually won't be fully cured. Actually what is happening is the parasites go through a three-stage life cycle. First they attach themselves to the fish and appear as the white spots. Right now they'd be in a protective covering that any medication cannot be effective. But after several days depending upon temperature the ick will drop off and dissappear from the fish. This leads many fishkeepers to believe that their fish is cured. But actually the parasites are multiplying down in the bottom of the tank and soon they will swarm again and attack the fish once more. Its in this swarming stage that they are vunerable to medications and that's why its so important to keep medicating for the full treatment period even if the spots dissapear.

I'd be really interested to see how your goldfishes appearance is. If you like you can email me pictures through- nature_girl2u@hotmail.com

Remember some goldfish can go through drastic color changes as well. Sometimes they won't even look like the same fish. It usually happens as the fish are getting a little older and they are growing. Their color can change pretty quick, sometimes within a week or so. I may be able to tell from good quality pictures if Peppy is just going through a normal color change (which I have a tendency to highly believe) or if there is actually a problem.

Let me see some pictures of Peppy and maybe I'll be able to help more.

Also, It would be best for your goldfish to be given a variety of food instead of just worms. They really need a higher fiber diet. Ideally a staple high quality goldfish flake food, supplemented with frozen and freeze dried foods, plus vegetables like peas, romain lettuce, spinach, zucchini, ect...

Best of luck as always,
Karen~