Fishes lying on the bottom

Question
QUESTION: Hi Nathan,

Chris Robins is kind enough to answer my concerns. Since he is on vacation and the site suggests to choose another expert, I have selected you to give me your advises.

Please refer to the following link that gives my concerns and response by Chris.
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=3216&qID=4840448

Here are my reply to Chris's questions and additional info.

1. The tank also has an algae eater about 5 inches long. I feed it once in every week or so with TetraMin algae wafers;
2. The tank has 1 gold fish and 1 butterfly koi lived for about 6 months and a week ago I have added new one (the OGAN koi fish, yellow color). At this time, I also have added two green plants bought from the same petstore. I noticed the sickening of fishes after adding the new fish and plants;
3. Today I have again tested the water. PH is: 7.2, Ammonia: 0.5 to 1.0 ppm; Nitrite: 0 ppm
4. I also visited the same petshop where I bought all these fishes for the advise. They suggested me to use Maracyn-Two which is in powder form for 5 days. Dosage: 2 packets for 10 gallons of water for the first day; 2nd through 5th day 1 packet for 10 gallons; Now the first day is over

Answers to Chris's questions:

1. How long has the tank been set up? 2 years
2. What kind of filter system? Penguin Filter, filter size 'C' (capable of filtering 50 to 100 gallons)
3. When was it last cleaned? Two weeks ago (20% of water replacement)
4. How long have the fish been in the tank? 1 Gold fish and 1 butterfly koi lived for about 6 months and a week ago I have added new one (the OGAN koi fish, yellow color). I noticed the sickening of fishes after adding the new fish
How big are each of the fish? All are little over 4 inches
5. How much salt did you add exactly? Have you ever added any before? If so, how much and when? How often? Added 1 rounded spoonful for every 5 gallons of water (about 8 spoons, overall). I did not add it before.
6. What kind of food do you feed them? How often? How long does it take for them to eat it all? TetraMin (tropical crisps) and TetraFin (floating variety pellets), I feed them once in the moring, they finish eating within a minute or two
7. Do they ever rub themselves on things in the tank? Do they 'twitch' as if something itches or irritates them? I noticed this behavior quiet often by the OGAN fish

Thanks in advance,

Smitha

ANSWER: Hi Smitha,

I've divided my answer into three (3) parts, for easier reading...
Too bad I don't have a picture of your fish.

1)The ammonia is a bit high, at 1 ppm. I'd perform a 20% water change every 1-2 days, to help dilute and reduce the toxins in the water. A little ammonia or nitrite may be the only cause of the 'lying on the bottom' behavior.

2)You said the Koi fish was rubbing itself constantly against the rocks, etc. This may be caused by a parasite. The parasite irritates the skin of the fish, and so, in an effort to remove it, the fish scratches, to (unsuccessfully) remove the parasite. Parasites, unlike bacteria, are often easy to spot with the naked eye. Look carefully at the fish, especially on the fins, as well as the body. If there are any little or unusual dots, spots, or little 'buggers', then your Koi definitely has a parasite, or perhaps a crustacean,which is essentially a parasite. So, if you spot a parasite, pick up a medication at your local fish store, and change 30% of the water before applying it. Remember to remove any carbon from the filter, as with any medication. If you don't spot anything, the it may not have parasites...

3)I don't want to ask any more questions, but... are the scales of the bloated fish sticking outwards, or 'pineconing' as if they were 'extended' out of the body? Also, are the eyes protruding more than usual? If the scales are sticking out, (and in later stages, the eyes), then your fish may have dropsy. In a nutshell, dropsy is basically the inability to excrete bodily fluids, caused by organ sickness or failure, such as the kidneys. These fluids accumulate within the body, and cause the fish to bloat. Dropsy is often fatal, but treating it with a bacterial treatment, such as Maracyn, will often help. Fortunately, dropsy is not contagious. If your fish seems to be suffering from dropsy, a combination of Maracyn (normal) and Maracyn-2 (which you already have, for gram negative bacteria), should cover the entire spectrum of bacterial infections. Don't worry about item #3 (dropsy) if the scales are not sticking out.

See this for more info on Dropsy:
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/hddropsy.htm

Check this site for additional disease diagnosis info:
http://www.fishlore.com/Disease.htm

I hope your fish recover, best of luck!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------


Diseased fishes   QUESTION: Hi Nathan,

Thanks a lot for your response. I am attaching the pictures herewith and I hope these would help.

I have changed 20% of water and am continuing maracyn-2 only. Do you suggest me to use maracyn normal? I am not using the carbon filter now.

I notice two fishes are staying near the surface and one fish still lying at the bottom of the tank. Also I noticed black few black spots on the fish that is lying down. Please see the blue circles on the attached picture.

After completing the maracyn-2 dosage, can I put the carbon filter back? The water became a bit cloudy after removing the filter.

Apprecite your suggestions.

Smitha

ANSWER: Hi Smitha,

I would use the normal Maracyn, as well as Maracyn-2, to cover the whole range of bacteria (Gram-positive+Gram-negative).

Judging from the pictures, your fish (the one with the two red spots) seems to have Erythrodermatitis. It is a bacterial infection, and can be treated with Maracyn.

Only after you finish the ENTIRE treatment (which means the fish are recovered) then you ca put back te carbon. The medication takes time to act, and placing the carbon in too soon will render the medication useless. Cloudiness is better than dead fish.

Good Luck, I really hope your fish recover!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------


Diseased fish   QUESTION: Hi Nathan,

After few days of treatment, two fishes are recovered. One fish is still diseased. Here are the conditions
1. The fish is lying down and comes actively to the surface when feeding.
2. This fish has black spots on its body and skin is peeling off. Please see the attached picture.
3. Maracyn-2 dosage is completed (5 days) and am continuing dosing Maracyn which will be complted in another 2 days.
4. The water color turned to be slight reddish brown and is a bit cloudy.
5. Today's test results: pH = 7.2, Nitrite: 0 ppm and Ammonia: ranging between 0 and 0.5 ppm

I can not bring down the ammonia level by changing the water as currently Maracyn treatment is going on. Here are my concerns:

1. Can I still replace water while administering the Maracyn? Otherwise when is the good time?
2. Is there any other medication I can use to control the skin peeling?
3. When is the good time to put the carbon filter back?

Appreciate your suggestions.

Smitha

Answer
Hi Smitha,

I'm sorry I took so long to respond. I had a huge wave of questions...

Anyways, I'd actually stop the treatment. Sometimes, black spots on a fish, like you mentioned (but I didn't see any in the picture) are a sign of possible medicine overdose, or prolonged use of medication.

Change 30% of the water now, to lower ammonia levels.

There's a possibility that your fish may simply be stressed by the poor water quality resulting from lack of water changes during treatment. The medication already cured your two other fish, I'm happy to hear.

Add a slime coat protector, such as Stress Coat/Stres Zyme, and that should help the fish. Your fish was diseased at least a week or longer, and if he actively feeds, it's probably not a sign of an acute bacterial infection. It's quite likely that it's not an infection at all.

I'd just use the Stress Coat.

You can put the carbon back now.

Good Luck, and I hope your fish recovers!