very aggresive gelding, is he protecting his mare?

Question
QUESTION: A friend has offered me to stable our horse there in exchange for taking care of there place when they travel.

We moved our 8 year old TB there and let him loose to check things out.  He is for a TB a relaxed guy. It was a very cold and windy day and we had to chase him around to get him to kick up his heels. He snorted at a few unfamiliar things and then we put him in the stall and he checked it out and then ate hay.

The other 2 horses an approx 9 year old QH cross gelding and a 6 year old paint mare were in their stalls.

She let the gelding out first and he came to the stall and they sniffed and then he lunged at our horse biting his blanket and pulling it hard.

He reared at the stall door several times. Our horse could have cared less.

When she let the mare out the gelding was more aggressive. He would not let her get near him.  If she tried he ran at the fence (as there is a small paddock attached to the stall) hitting it with his chest and breaking the top board.  This happened again and he broke the post.   We put our horse in the stall just incase he would break through, poor thing was shaking.

Her gelding really had no intention of stopping at the fence. He apparently has jumped the 4 foot fence and ran down another when first there to get to the other horses. She had 3 mares at that time.

So we moved him back to the other barn as we have till the end of the month.

I really would like for this to work as it is closer to home and financially better for us. Any ideas on what to do?

They have made the fence stronger with bigger posts and put boards in the insdie as well as the outside and will run electic across the top.


ANSWER: As usual, this is a people created problem and not a horse issue.  These horses are doing what horses do, they push lower horses, they try and establish dominance so they can be higher in the pecking order.  The herd has to have a strict pecking order to ensure the survival of the herd.  Only the strongest horse can be leader, so horse have to test each other to see who is higher and who is longer.  Totally normal.  However, when people put up fences, hot wires, gates, and dividers, trying to protect the horse and to feel like they are keeping their horse safe, they make it worse.  A horse does best and feels best when he is in a herd.  All horses bite and all get bit, all kick and all get kicked, it is the way of the horse.

Understanding herd behavior will help you and your horse, since a horse does the same things to people since the horse sees their world as a herd and you are either higher or lower in the herd.

I go into this subject in more detail on my horsemanship page of my site.

I would let all the horses go in a big pasture and let them be horses.  They will be happier and will be better horses because of it.

Rick

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I have never seen such an aggresive horse in all the years I have worked with them. This includes getting 10 new horses to introduce into the existing herds every summer at a camp.  I have done this for 10 years and have always watched the pecking order take place and moved some horses to other fields to make the adjustment.
This horse is very, very aggressive. They will be in separate pastures and worked with along the fence (per the owner) until he can be mixed in.
I am wondering if because there is 1 gelding and 1 mare if the gelding feels a threat by our gelding, even though he is not aggresive.
Like I have said this horse is very very aggresive.
Yes I do not want my daughters show horse to get hurt and I do understand the herd behavior but have just not seen such an aggresive horse.  

Answer
I still think the aggression is caused by us getting involved.  I never rescue a horse from a herd.  The horse needs to learn to show respect and to treat the higher horses correctly, per the herd.  This gelding is probably more aggressive since the he thinks this mare is his and all horse get more aggressive when new horses are introduced since they do not want to move down in the pecking order and there are benefits to being higher.  The fact that this gelding cannot correct the other gelding and cannot push him, make his show respect and since the other gelding feels safe and does not run away, he is showing disrespect to the higher caged horse, so this increases the aggression.  One horse feels safe and show disrespect and the other horses can't correct him and is trapped so once again I say "we, people cause this to be a bigger deal and make it worse by trying to protect or help"  Horses have survived for thousands of years without your help or my help, but then we, being the know it all humans, want to think we can do it better and we need to help and we need to protect, and we need to get involved.  We don't and when we do, the horse has to pay for our meddling and it is worse on the horse, so what do we (you) do, you get more involved and try to help more by putting up hot wires and bigger fences, so the aggression gets worse and more intense and continues because it is never settled, it is never worked out and somehow, we want to blame the horse for being "mean or really aggressive". IT IS NEVER THE HORSES FAULT.  So put up hot wires, put up bigger fences and protect this horse and when one day the two horses meet or one gets out and one or both horses get hurt or has to be put down, know that it will be your fault for trying to protect them.

Somehow I think you are going to do what you want to do and no matter what I say is going to change things.  So I am somehow confused as to what you are looking for.  I gave you my advice and opinion, I gave a reference page and told you what I think is the problem.

I am trying to be the voice of the horse and you want to tell me you have never seen such an aggressive horse.  I know horses pretty well and I think these horses are the way they are because of people sticking their nose in the natural order of herds and trying to protect things that do much better without human interference.  I stand by my take on this situation and my suggestion stands, put the horses out in a pasture, let them work it out and it will be done and over in a few days and they will all be buds and will be one structured safe, close herd.

Rick