My wonderful Morgan Gelding

Question
QUESTION: Rick I am 53 years old and I purchased my gelding over a year ago, and ended up having to board him which was not the deal when I purchased him, but that is besides the point. So of course I couldn't wait to bring him home he had been standing in shit all day and out of water when ever I showed up. My heart was breaking.

But I also noticed this was in no way like when I was 17 years old. I was afraid for the first time ever around a horse. I must of either been a natural at 17 or now a very stupid 53 year old woman.

My concern for him was that he was in a paddock for days on end so when I went to visit at least every couple days I decided to use the arena to allow him a bit of exercise.

The first time I walked into the arena he began a dance that was very freighting and I ended up yelling for my husband to take him. Which he did and did a good job taking him from there to the cross ties where I was going to groom him.

I didn't know after that if I wanted to be near this guy again. At 53 with health issues this wasn't what my idea of buying a horse for my health was suppose to be.

I had no plans on hiring a trainer, I bought him because he was well trained and he was also 13 and a gelding. This was suppose to be simple.

When I was told he needed a firm hand , I thought she meant that I would have to be consistent with him when he did things like not coming etc.

Well I was ready to throw in the towel and then my husband said , but I thought you loved him. Well yes , it took me two years to find this guy and I really believed I would make him happy and we would be ok.

Once I realized that this was not going to be simple and maybe I should hire a trainer, it was a wait game.

In this time I read that if he acts up that I should walk towards his butt real fast pulling his lead into me to get his attention. This worked, and I finally was able to bring him in the arena myself and let him go to enjoy himself.

I used to open the door a crack so he could see his buddies and he did this often especially after running , jumping and rolling in the dirt. I loved to watch him. This was also the place I would sneak him a bit extra hay.

He eventually started not to look for his buddies and would come to me sitting on a stool and let me touch him.

Then the trainer called and she was suppose to show me how to lead him and take control.

She showed me how to lead him, but then I needed to sit because of my back pain, then she took over.

I watched as she got him to do the circle thing, and then she started to whip him. To make a long story a bit shorter. She was gone. That quick.

Well after months to get back to our earlier time, I finally got to bring him home. He was here for a week before my husbands much bigger Mare arrived and he seemed to maintain that he was the boss. Till yesterday.

He went over to her food dish and kicked her out of it. Literally. Then she turned on him. I was worried she hurt him so I got him in the paddock / I let them back today after breakfast and she let him in the pasture, but I could see that things had changed between them. Now I could see  that he was now running from her and submitting.

It's too bad that he is now her whimp, but when I took him out again this time to separate them for their lunch she wouldn't let him back in.

She wouldn't back up for me to let him in, both their ears were back and they muffeled something from their voices to each other.

Lets just say as he seemed more upset, I thought the best thing was to just take him back to the paddock. His own space. My plan is to allow these guys to get on with it, and work things out , but I can't have her kill him either.

I was sure she broke his leg last night.

I am just one very small woman between these very large beast and all I can do is tell them to back off and when they don't because of their own agenda, I am now lost as to what to do.

Normally when misbehavior happens I just say no in a firm voice or back off, Or wave my line that I carry. I don't want to start carrying a whip.

I don't want either of them to be scared of me, but I do want to be able to fix this problem.

I look forward to your advice










ANSWER: OK, you got a lot going on here and mainly with you.  You have to know your limitations.  Don't put yourself in a position to get hurt, you can not help your horses if you are hurt.  I can hear in your email that you are not confident and are insecure about your ability to handle these guys.  Being small or big is not much difference when handling horses, they are so much stronger than us the difference between a weak and strong human is nothing to a horse.

I think most of this problem is you and your lack of knowledge about horses.  You are thinking too much like a human, when dealing with horses you need to think like a horse, that is all a horse knows.  You want to keep this horse safe so you lock him up, that is not good for the horse or you.  All horses fight, all horses will push each other, all horses try and move up in the pecking order.  The more you try and protect horses you more damage you do to a horses.  Put the horses together and let them work it out, if you try and help you will only make it worse, you will prolong the fight and you will end up getting hurt.

You have two horses, they need each other for safety and companionship, but they have to work out who is higher and who is lower, every time you interfere and stop them from working it out, you prolong this, let them be.  Either horse can run away if it wants so if it stays to fight, then it is their choice.  You don't want to cause fights by feeding in one pile, feed them in three piles far enough apart so they can eat without kicking each other.  After a few days they will be be best buds.  Stop playing peace maker.  ALL horses do this.

As for you, I don't think you need to be hitting a horse with a whip, however, if a horse tries to bite you, kick you and strike you, then you can hit with a hammer if you have too, you can not let a horse kick, bite or strike you, so you have to go crazy if your horse does this, scare the crap out of him and make him never want to do that again.  You need to educate yourself about horses so you understand them better so you stop thinking like a human or a mother.  A horse only understands a few things, you are either higher or lower than him, he either respect you or he doesn't.  

Spend some time reading my web site, in the mean time put them horses back together and let them work it out, if you want feel you must do something, stand by with a water hose and if they get trapped in a corner and one can't get out, then spray the aggressor with the hose and make it run away.  The only problem you will have is if one gets trapped in a corner otherwise one will push and the other will push back or move away, it is that simple and very normal.

Rick

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello again Rick
Yes I have a whole lot to learn, and that is why I picked you to answer my question. I do want to say that the only reason I separated them was because if this is what is going to happen at meal time then it would make sense to separate them, and put them back together when the meal time is over. But originally I separated them because I was worried he was injured. So what happens if I let them kick it out again and she breaks his leg??

I also did put them back together after supper, and once she pushed him away so she could get a little scratch by me she was fine. And they seem to be fine again.

Up until that incident they seemed to be fine. He made sure she backed off when I came to the fence. He would walk to the food dish first and be fed in first order. Same when I spray them at night, he wants to be done first.

The fight did not surprise me . I was sure she had every reason to say enough is enough. He was keeping me to himself as well as everything else he could. He is a very demanding guy, and I was very proud of her for what she did. Wishing of course I had what it was that she has.

I am still not sure about the feeding. I do keep their dishes far apart. He eats his , and then goes over to eat hers when he is done. And tomorrow a 2 year old Mare is arriving.

About your site, well I have every intention of reading it.  I know I am thinking like a Mom, I have 13 dogs so Mommy is my middle name.  

Answer
About the broken leg question, yes a horse can get a broken leg, they can also trip and break a leg, they can get it caught in a fence and break it, they can break getting a trailer, my point is they are horses and there are two kinds of horses, the ones that are hurt and the ones that will get hurt.  They play rough, they correct each other rough and they are big and strong, so I like to let them be horses, that is what they know best.

I don't like fence corners or fences but we have to keep our horses in fences so they don't run into traffic, but we don't have to feed them one pile of food and make them fight over it.  Horses never fight over food int he wild, why, there are not fences and no people that feed them twice a day, so once you realize that we cause all problem with horses, you will start seeing the world as they do and will be better for it.

Your two year old will be fine, geldings make great baby sitters and like to play, so a two year old will play a lot and it will get bitten and it will get kicked and it may get a few marks and cuts, no big deal, it will be learning valuable lesson that only another horse can teach and it will make it easier for you to handler the two year old as it gets older.  You can not teach a horse to be a horse, only another horse can do that.

Watch your horses fight, play and work together as a herd, you will see a whole lot of communication and team work, once a herd establishes the pecking order, they are calm and work together, but again, we as people keeping adding new horses, put up fences, feed twice a day, bring treats, and all of this messes up the natural herd and cause problems.

So get ready for the two year old to be chased and pushed around so both horses make sure that the two year old knows he is low horse and he better respect his elders.

Read my site so you can think like a horse.  Your horses will love for that.

Ricki