Breeding Questions

Question
Hey Tam,

Its Bob, im the one with the mice with the strange illness and the mouse project. Well I would once again like to thank you for your help! You were so great. Your advice worked and I still have 4 of the six mice i originally had. My mice are all healthy and happy. Now when I first got mice i wasnt sure as to how much I would like them as a pet. Now that Ive had them however, I love them. They are so much fun to watch and play with. Well anyway let me cut to the point. I love having my mice so much that I want a community of them for a long time. My point is, I want to breed them. Now I dont want to breed them out of control though. Once maby every year and a half. Just so that I always have a nice community of them. Ive been doing my research about breeding but, I would very much like your advice. Here is what I want to happen...

1. I want to have calm mice in the future community. I plan to do this by purchasing a male mouse that is calm and breeding it with my calmest female.

2. A healthy generation, Any advice?

Those are my two main points i want to achieve. Now next is what I am unsure of.

1. I dont want to have two communities (one male other female) but it looks as if I have to do that if I dont want over breeding. It is not a problem, I would just rather have a single community.

2. Will sibling breed once of age?

3. Can I leave a pregnant female in my current community of 4 females. No males but, im afraid if I take out the wheel for safty the other females will be bored and become mischievous. Please any suggestions?

4. If I do separate the communities (male/female) how many sould be in the male group as to not get lonely. Im not worried about female cuz im sure there will be female babies plus I alread have 4.


Please any advice would be nice also do you think i should breed?

One more thing is that my mice are all albino feeders. I plan on getting a male fancy mouse with color. Any suggestions on picking him out. I want him to be calm but any other advice?

Answer
Hi Bob,

I am SO glad to hear you still have 4 females!  :D

I would like to answer your breeding questions in detail, but it will make for quite a long answer and will be better as a discussion.  Could you send me an email, so that we can talk about this in more depth?  My email address is limegreenmice@hotmail.com.  There is a lot more advice that I would like to share with you than I could probably fit in this box, heh.

The short responses to your goals/plans:
1.  This is a good idea - the calmer the mother is with you, the calmer she will be with you when you try to handle her babies.  The sooner you handle her babies, the calmer your first filial generation (your original mice are called your parental generation) will be, with the earliest you should handle them being around 3 days or so.  Remember to isolate the male you choose for 3 weeks before introducing him to your selected female.  Also, when selecting your calmest female, make sure that she is healthy enough to breed - normal posture and weight, thick tail in which you cannot see her bones, clear and non-puffy eyes, etc.

2.  A healthy generation will depend on the mom as much as it depends on her genetics.  Some mothers are better with babies than others, some produce more milk than others.  This could be aided by having other female mice in the tank - but the same thing goes for them, and another female could decide to eat the babies instead.  You just don't know with your first litter.  I usually don't put a female back after she's been bred, and give her her own cage (no bars, pups escape).  That way she can get used to it and won't be stressed when the babies come.  Be prepared to lose a litter or two along the way, though, as you figure these things out.  Healthy babies will be plump, not lanky, and have white spots on their bellies where the milk is in their stomachs.  It's just another factor - a great, healthy mom and a healthy dad could still have a hard time supporting pups.  When selecting for future generations, look for good mothering skills - they are inherited.  Also only breed from the healthiest one in the litter, so you can improve their immune systems and overall health over time.  Also observe your original mice long into their lives, so you can look out for late-in-life problems that your offspring might inherit.

In response to your questions:
1.  Unfortunately, you will always have to separate the males.  It's worse than that - you will have to separate each male from his litter mates as well, because they usually get to fighting later in life (especially if you breed from one).  You will likely have one or two cages for females and, judging by how infrequently you intend to breed, probably around 10-25 cages for males.  Always be prepared to have an all-male litter, so you are never out of cages.  This is the sad truth about breeding - you can't keep everyone together.  You have to control the breeding that goes on, so that you don't continue bad traits, inbreed too much, or breed from one doe too many times.  Your other option, of course, is to cull extra males when they are young, but this is a very touchy subject and if you would like more information please email me.  You could also try to find homes for all of them, but fewer people want male mice as pets because they cannot be housed with other mice.  Breeding is no small project, I'm sorry.  :(

2.  Yes, siblings will get it on as soon as they can.  I have heard of bucks getting their sisters pregnant as early as 4 weeks, which is about weaning age.  However, this seems unusual, and does usually come of age a bit later around 6-8 weeks, depending on the doe and her ancestry.  A female shouldn't breed if you can help it before 3 months of age, or when she is elderly.

3.  The thing with females is, as stated above, some make good mothers and some don't like those wiggly pink things at all.  Until you try it, you have no way of knowing if the other mice in the cage will help out the mom, or eat the babies when she's off the nest.  To avoid the situation, I usually separate the mom into her own cage after she's mated, so she can get used to being alone for a while and get used to me checking in on her.  Mine usually appreciate the extra attention and treats, though, so that would be my suggestion.  I know other people who swear by keeping nannies in the tank with the mom, though.

4.  Males do not get lonely, except when you don't play with them enough.  Male mice do NOT need other mice, and in the wild it is most beneficial to kill rival males when they run into them.  Males are accustomed to living alone.  They will be very sweet to you, though, so you should still give them lots of play time and attention, but each male needs to have his own cage.

Your last question on picking a buck:
Pick a color you would like to pass on, but know that it is very likely to be covered up by whatever the females are masking beneath their albino.  They still have coat colors, they just aren't expressed.  Their colors will affect the colors of your babies.  I can explain this to you in more detail with some links if you email me, but it's a bit much to get into here.  As far as health, look for a fat tail with no bite wounds or kinks.  Look for big ears, clear and open eyes, no missing fur, no bite marks (ruffle up the fur to look for scabs), a calm temperament (doesn't jump out of your hand or bite when you hold his tail), and an overall chunky and long-bodied appearance.  Make sure that the mouse you pick is not "calm" because he is sick - he should still run around and be active in the cage.  And quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!  ;)

Okay, I have a LOT more to say and advice to give...but it's too much for this one answer!  I hope you will email me if you still want to breed, and I can walk you through how to get started, how to sex and handle the pups, how to make inexpensive cages, keeping records, how to keep it from getting out of hand, and what mistakes I made that you can look out for.  All that good stuff!  ;)