Is wild mouse pups behavior normal?

Question

mice   QUESTION: Hi Natasha,

My partner and I found two baby deer mice in a parking lot a couple of days ago. There was also a dead sibling near them, and one of them had (has) a badly broken tail. I think they are between 1 and 2 weeks old since they have fur on their backs and seem to be able to go to the bathroom on their own (I still stimulate after feeding just in case) and do other things like cleaning themselves with their paws, but their eyes are still closed.

I've been feeding them KMR mixed with a little water (half and half for the first few feedings, then mostly KMR) every 2-4 hours since we found them. The one with the broken tail has been quite an eager eater, the other one less so, but the most recent feeding he seemed more interested so I was happy about that. Before he was mostly wriggling and it was sometimes hard to tell whether he was trying to find the nipple or trying to push it away from him (I have a small nipple attachment that may still be kinda big relative to momma's nipple, attached to a syringe). Hopefully he keeps up his recent interest in the food.

I am worried about the other one's broken tail though. I know you're not a vet but even just a sympathetic ear for my frustration would be nice right now, and if you have any advice or anything you think I could improve on with respect to what I'm doing then that's an added bonus. ;)

When we first found them we were not too far from one of the two emergency vets in town so we went there but the receptionists and technicians said they don't see rodents there and didn't really have any knowledge or advice, but to try the other e-vet since they thought they take rodents. So when we got home I called the other e-vet and explained about the mice and asked about amputation of the tail. The receptionist said they don't see rodents there either but that she would go talk to the vet and get back to me. When she got back she said that no, they can't treat mice but if I think euthanasia would be the most humane thing then they would make an exception for that. Well I certainly did not think that was necessary after they'd survived the car ride home and drank some of the KMR. She said to try an exotic vet in the morning.

So I did that and got an appointment for 9 am. But when I saw the vet there she wasn't very helpful and just didn't seem to want to deal with wild mice. She warned me about hantavirus and how serious it is, that it was my choice whether to keep caring for them but she didn't recommend it and that I should try again to get in touch with a wildlife rehabber (I had called the evening before and left a message, but no call back). As for the tail she said it didn't seem infected and would probably just fall off on its own, that nature has its way of dealing with these things. I wanted to say yeah and 9 times out of ten that is probably with a painful death. She said I could try putting antiseptic on it if I wanted so I got some antibiotic ointment and have been putting a thin layer on after feedings.

It worries me though that it's going to get infected and spread to the rest of him or something. Especially because of the location of the open wound, just in the right place so that he gets poop on it (he has been having sort of runnier stools today/yesterday evening, I don't think it's bad diarrhea yet but definitely gooey and sometimes oozes down the tail, sorry for the gross description!)

So, I was wondering if you have had such difficulties getting vets to treat mice you've cared for? I know the hantavirus is bad and all but only a small percentage of them have it (and probably less than the average here, there have been very few cases in my province), and from what I've read, even if the mother has it, she passes antibodies to the babies that protect them for their first 2 months. So (I'm no virologist and I know you aren't either) I think what that means is that *if* their mother had it, they may still shed the virus for a little while (days? weeks? no idea) but probably a smaller amount than a mouse who was in active infection phase (?? guessing) and that they will not become carriers long term.

So yeah to me it seems that the likelihood of catching it from them is really small; I don't know if that vet was actually scared of the virus or maybe just worried about legal issues or something... Have you had these difficulties? Any tips on convincing a vet to actually treat him if the tail starts looking worse?

Sorry this is sooo very long, like I said I'm feeling pretty frustrated and kind of needed to vent, and would love to hear from someone who is experienced and actually *cares* about mice, even if you don't have any experience with broken tails... I'm attaching a photo that shows the tail; I don't know if you can actually see enough to tell anything (I was having a hard time getting the camera to focus on them) but I figure it's better than nothing!

Thank you so much,
Jo

ANSWER: Dear Jo,

First of all, thank you so very much for caring about these little critters!  You've shown real dedication. And those pictures-- the mice are so darn cute!

Hantavirus is extremely rare, and mothers don't pass it to their babies. I don't know how the virus works-- I just bought a book about it so I might know soon-- but people usually get it from being in contact with infestations of old mouse poops and urine. I myself wouldn't worry for a second about an infant pup, though for obvious legal and moral reasons, I can't make any guarantees to you.  Still, I can see that your vets might not be willing to take the chance. Chances are they know very little about the virus.

As for his tail injury, although I would recommend an antibiotic for an older mouse, I think if he seems OK he probably is about as OK as he can be. Little mouse pups are hard to raise, so he's definitely in danger just because of his situation.  But he seems to have survived the tail injury.  I don't know whether the tail will fall off, but it doesn't make a lot of difference-- if it heals he will have a crooked tail, and if it falls off he will have a short tail, and because mice have no vanity, he will never feel like he is less of a mouse for it!  Keep it very clean and if it is open, put the ointment on it a couple of times a day.

But if the tail starts looking "ugly"-- red or swollen-- then there's more cause for worry. In that case I would try the antibiotic. I tried to work out how to give that to an infant mouse just the other day:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Mice-3824/2010/7/Urgent-Orphan-Mouse-Ear.htm

I truly wish your little fellows the best of health. If they survive they will make wonderful pets, and it's obvious that  you will be a wonderful human for them.

squeaks,

Natasha

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you very much for the advice and the encouragement! After doing another search for vets who treat rodents in the area, I've actually gotten an appointment with a different vet tomorrow for a second opinion on the tail. The receptionist went to ask him if he would be willing to treat wild baby mice and she came back saying that he said sure he would look at it, so hopefully that means he's truly more open to the possibility than the first vet. You're right she probably just doesn't know much about the virus (they are GPs after all, not experts in every virus known to every animal species...) and is wary of getting involved; if you just read the basic info about the virus ignoring how tiny the chance of actually coming into contact with it from the particular situation, it's true it does sound pretty scary.

Reading the question from Kimberly about her mouse's balance problem made me question whether my mice's behaviour is normal, though. They do seem to do a lot of squirming and wriggling around, rolling over and over each other, and twitching quite a bit when they sleep (but I think that last one is pretty normal for a lot of baby mammal species?). When I hold them in my hand for feeding they also squirm and roll/flip over a fair bit (but I just thought that was because the bottle nipple isn't really ideal and sometimes some extra liquid squirts onto their faces, sometimes the tip gets too dry because I'm trying to prevent the squirting). I haven't really seen them try to walk on a flat surface since right now they're in a very small cage with a lot of bedding surrounding them.

I am also wondering if they sometimes self-stimulate in order to eliminate? I've recently noticed Vince, the one with the broken tail, curling up and reaching towards his privates so I hope it's not because his tail is bothering him more - hoping that he is just self-stimulating or something... The other one, Mike, also curls up a lot but I haven't noticed quite the same thing; maybe I'm just noticing it more with Vince because I'm already worried about the tail. I suppose either way though, there isn't really anything to do about it before the vet appointment tomorrow at noon. I'll be sure to keep rubbing his belly and stimulating after feeding him...

(By the way, my partner named them Vince and Mike after himself and his twin brother! I don't see any nipples on them so I'm thinking maybe they are indeed boys, but then I have no experience sexing mice so maybe I'm not seeing the nipples. I'll just have to keep an eye out for swirls as the belly hair grows more I guess!)

Thanks again,
Jo

Answer
Dear Jo,

I'm glad you found somebody brave enough to face a tiny baby mouse pup!  As for their behavior, mice that young do a lot of wiggling around in the nest. I can't say what normal wild mouse pup behavior is while being fed by hand because I actually haven't done that myself.  I can't say there is no problem but I wouldn't worry unless the vet is worried.

Here is a little help in sexing mouse pups:

http://www.thefunmouse.com/info/sexing.cfm

Best of luck to Mike and Vince. Keep me up to date!

squeaks,

Natasha