artificial mother mouse

Question
QUESTION: Alright my newest doe mouse Thumper I guess was
pregnant because she just had nine pups three days ago. I sadly didn't not know
she was pregnant and she was in my quarintine cage which was less the ten gallons. And I know from experiance that they need atleast a ten gallow tank so it doesn't get to crowded later on. She is a tiny mouse in general, about half the size of my regular does. Also has a non malignant tumor on the side of her neck that doesn't seem to bother her in the slightest, I would never breed here because I don't want the genes that make her suseptable to tumor to be passed on. Well anyway I waited till today, three full days before moving them. I took thumper out an put her in a holding tank where
she couldn't see what inwas doing. I set up a ten gallon tank up with her old bedding and her wheel and everything. I put her pups in the same spot where they would be in the older tank. I put her back and then right away she takes this one pup out. ( she did this yesterday with the same pup, I can tell because he has a really dark pigmented crown unlike the others. ) so I tried putting him back and she ran over and like started literally attacking my hand and took the pup out again. Shr wasn't eating him or anything just keeping him out. So I got a small box and have a heating pad undernieth it. She let me take the baby out and I put him in my lil box. He won't eat though. I ran out and got the kmr, and special syringes. But he wont eat. I have warmed the kmr and diluted it two times more. I've never had this problem before.

ANSWER: Dear Rei,

A mother mouse will often abandon or even kill a pup if there is something wrong with the pup or it is sick. It's possible that the pup was unhealthy and the move was enough to trigger it to behave differently or even refuse to eat. So it would make sense that she had taken the same pup out earlier. If this is the case, you won't be able to rescue him.

On the other hand, maybe it is just that she got upset or confused from the move. I think it makes sense to try putting the baby in once again just to see.  It's an awful big job to hand raise a pup, so if you can avoid it you should try.  Take out the wheel and anything that could distract her, make sure the cage is in a warm area so the pup can't die of exposure, and leave her alone for maybe an hour. Maybe she will take him back in.  If she doesn't, all you can do is try to feed him and if he won't eat, know you have done your best.

For the future, you do not need to give a nursing mom much room. She could happily raise her babies in a shoebox, until they hit about 3 weeks and start wanting some space to move around. I also always tell my clients to wait seven days before handling newborn pups because, even though breeders often start on day one, you never know about the temperament and breeding of a pet store mouse.

I hope it works out and the little guy survives. Best of luck.

squeaks,

Natasha

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QUESTION: Thank you for the fast response. Well I tried to wait another hour and put the pup back
into the nest with out her in the tank. I then put thumper back in and i left. The I came back twenty minutes later to find the same one with another one with him. I sadly took them out and put them in the little box and put it on a heating pad. I decided to maybe try to take a small rat beanie baby and took some of the beans out, so it wasn't so heavy on them. I thnen used these nipple looking things and peircentgem through the stomach of the stuffed animal. I then put a small
sock filled with rice and warmed it, putting it in the tummy of the stuffed animal so it feels warm. Once I put the stuffed animal in the box they quickly crawled over and began to try to suckle on the littlw nipple things. But they kept falling out every once and a while. I tried feeding them with my small oral syringes and ear droppers but they wouldn't suckle from it. Do you know any links or ways to maybe make my false mother mouse better?

ANSWER: Dear Rei,

Either the babies are defective or Thumper is confused/upset/psychologically unsound, and you aren't going to get that pair working again (it's good that you don't want to breed her again). I spoke to my breeder and he agreed.   Do you have any other nursing moms? Another option is to see if your pet store has a nursing mom. To introduce a new baby to a suckling mom, take the mom out of the cage, roll your hands in the mom's scent (from the corners of the cage or from the plastic wheel), gently cover the babies with the scent, put all the babies together, mingling them a bit for a few minutes, and then put all of them back in the nest and put the mom back in the cage.

To feed the babies you can try a small paintbrush or even a bit of paper towel. The best thing to feed them with is kitten replacement milk; soy milk is ok until you can get that, or if you can't get the KMR. Feed them drop by drop until they refuse it. After they nurse you need to gently stimulate their abdomens and genitals to help them eliminate.  They need to suckle every 2 hours around the clock (their mom is supposed to do it every half hour).  It's a LOT of work.  But the babies will be unbelievably loyal and tame if they survive. And certainly don't blame yourself if they don't.

My very best wishes-- please let me know what happens, I care and it helps me with other cases.

squeaks,

Natasha


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I'm sorry I probably didn't make my question very clear. I understand that thumper or the pinkie could have some sort of defects. I currently do not have any nursing does sadly and the local pet stores do not have any either. The only place that did have a nursing doe REFUSED to let me buy the doe. I even offered to pay for her litter but they were very unsympathetic and refused me. I have been feeding them since 9:30 last night, almost ever 45 minutes and they are VERY vocal when they are hungry. Last night I had the heating pad and the box on my bed last night and slept in 30 minutes intervoles. They really love the artificial mother I made for them, but the nipples I made
for the stuffed animal keep slipping out. And they refuse now to eat anything from my syringes or eardroppers. They only eat from my artificial doe. My question is is there any way I can improve on my structure of my artificial for?

Answer
Dear Rei,

I have to say I am amused and impressed with your artificial doe. I have never heard of someone going quite so far to hand nurse mouse pups!  Unfortunately this means I have no experience to lend you. People usually feed pups by hand. I'm also amazed that you are feeding them every 45 minutes. You are very devoted.

I'm shocked that the pet store wouldn't sell you the doe and her pups!  A pregnant doe would probably work too. I also do know of cases where a nursing RAT has taken mouse babies. That's the only avenue I have to offer you.  Hamsters apparently have the wrong kind of milk.

I do wish I could help, and I'm impressed by your efforts.  Keep me posted!

squeaks,

Natasha