ich and heat and diff kinds of fish`

Question
QUESTION: Hi - I've heard that you can get rid of ich by raising heat to about 82.  I am wondering whether that might hurt any of the fish in my tank.  I have:


elephant nose
congo tetra
rainbow shark
rainsbow shark, albino
zig zag eel
burma loaches
rhino pleco
pilt cats
spotted sailfin pleco
bala sharks
roseline shark


Thanks much in advance for your help!

ANSWER: Hi Brad
Well, I think most of those fish will probably handle that temp ok.  I think the eel may get stressed by it, and not sure what a pilt cat is, but may handle it ok.
 
The problem you're going to have, you have sensitive fish in there.  Tetras and scaleless fish are sensitive to salt and most ich meds out there.  Most sites actually recommend raising the temp higher then that as well, but I've seen different opinions on that.  Usually you need to use another method though for treatment.  The higher temps speed up the ich life cycle, but you can't raise it high enough to kill off the ich.  Here's a good article on ich with different treatments, need to copy/paste:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius

If you do raise the temp, be sure to increase aeration in the tank, like using an air stone.  The higher temps deplete the oxygen in the water.  Be sure to do frequent water changes, the ich parasite is only susceptible during certain stages of it's life, so good gravel vacs help out there as well.  You also will need to maintain that temp for awhile, at least 2 weeks, and for at least 3 days once all the "spots" fall off the fish.  

I would give some thought to possibly moving the real sensitive fish like the elephant nose, eel, and loaches if they're not infected, to a separate tank temporarily.  Find a medicine that is safe for scaleless fish and tetras and use that in conjuction with the higher temp.  I've heard of people using small salt dosages added gradually over a period of a few days, but not sure how high of a dosage is needed to kill of the ich.  It's so hard some times with those sensitive fish....

Hope that helps, and good luck with whatever treatment you chose.  If you have more questions, please ask!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks, that was very helpful.  Do you think there is anyway that the ich will just go away by doing water changes?  Its at a very low stage - only a few white dots on a few fishes, so I'm tempted to wait it out, but don't want to do that if its a bad idea.

Also on the "pilt" cat I meant pictus.  sorry.  

so which of my fish are the most sensitive?  is it like this:

eel
elephant nose
loaches
pictus cat
tetras

and are all of these scaleless?
ANSWER: Hi Brad
You know, ich is one of the easiest disease/problems to treat lol, but I'm having a really difficult time suggesting something for you....I've had all those fish at one time or another, and I always had another tank I could move them to if needed, but never had a problem. Yes, those fish with the exception of the tetras, are scaleless.  

Ok, ich is always present in a tank, it just makes itself known when a fish is stressed.  Things that can stress fish, poor water quality/not enough water changes, overstocking, moving/transporting them, being bullied by other aggressive fish.  So, lets figure out why the fish may be stressed first.
 
What size is your tank?  
And how often are/were you changing the water?  
Are any of the fish new?
Do you have a test kit, if so what's the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates reading?
What temp do you usually keep the tank at?  And is it steady or does it fluctuate?(is there a heater)  
And, what fish have the signs/symptoms showing?

Let me know on those answers, I'm trying to see what a good med is for sensitive fish, I'm also tossing around another idea.

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: 36 gallon bowfront.  i know, its overstocked.  i've got a rena 75 gal filter going.

i aim to change 25% 1/week, but sometimes it slips to two weeks, and once in a while 3 weeks.  

tested water and 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, can't remember nitrate i think about 40, and ph is 7

the only new fish is a spotted sailfin pleco

usually keep tank at 76

fish symptoms:  a bala shark had a couple of white dots, but they seem to have gone away.  a roseline shark has a couple of dots on is tail.  the rainbow shark, looks to have a couple of white dots, but its behavior is the most different - usually it swims around, chases the other sharks and the algae eaters.  now its kind of docile and hiding under a rock.  i did a big water change yesterday and it has perked up somewhat.  also, since raising the temp to 82, the general activity level has increased alot - the burma loaches are going gonzo - but thats how they were when i first got them.
ANSWER: Hi Brad
Yep, you're a tad overstocked :)  That in conjunction with the slipped water changes(and I understand, it happens sometimes) is probably the stress that brought out the ich.  When treating ich, you need to treat the tank.  Usually when a fish is sick, you want to remove the fish and treat the fish, but not in this case.  Try to go ahead and continue with the small daily water changes-vacuuming the gravel/substrate area good.  Keep the temp at 82, for at least 2-3 weeks.  If you don't see an improvement soon or more fish start to get infected, then start looking for a med that treats sensitive fish, I know I've seen one before, let me search some more for the name.  Hopefully with the water changes and higher temp, that'll make the fish strong enough to fight off the infection on their own.
The higher temp is probably what's making the fish more "active".  I know with my red devil/midas, I didn't have a heater in the tank, it was kinda cool, low to mid 70's.  I added a heater a few months back, and he perked up and got all nasty on me again and attacking when I did his water changes lol.  That's actually one way to kinda control aggression, turn the temp down a little bit.

I'll get back to you on that med, I'm thinking it's one of two, I'll post a follow up to this.  Good luck with your treatment, and hope that works without the meds!

Christy

Ok, found what I was looking for.  Here's a link, copy/paste to browser:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4709&N=2004+113016

It's called Ick Guard II by Jungle.  I've never used this, so can't say much about it other then I've seen it lol.  Says it treats scaleless fish like catfish and loaches.  You may still need to remove the elephant nose, they're just super sensitive fish.  In fact, I remember reading and talking with this guy overseas, some water treatment plants use them to detect problems with water quality because of their sensitivity.  

Good luck!!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: thanks.  

here's an update:  today the rainbow shark was dead.  but i couldn't find any white dots on him.  does that mean that he died of something else?  

a couple of other questions:

my tank is fairly heavily planted, and i have alot of light - 130 watts.  should i turn down the light?

and what about salt?:  should i add salt, so long as i mix it and get it soluble first?  

i'll try the ick guard.  

Answer
Make sure you use the Ick Guard II product, it should say specifically for sensitive fish.  I don't know what the ingredient difference is, forgot to check that, may be a lesser dosage or a completely different ingredient from the regular Ick Guard.

The rainbow shark that died, was their ich inside his gills?  Sometimes that's harder to see.  Or, it could've been from something else as well.  You said he was hiding and not as active as before?  Could've been the ich problem.

No salt with plants in the tank, and like I said before, most of those fish won't tolerate salt too well either.  
I just started getting into plants for my tanks, so I'm just learning on that stuff.  Here's a link that gives you calculations based on how deep the tank is etc. and what kind of plants, and how long to leave the lights on for:

http://faq.thekrib.com/plant-lighting.html

I've read that you generally want 1-2 watts per gallon, and I can't say, since I'm new to plants, what would happen if the wattage was too high.  Sorry, can't help ya out there.

Christy