strange red marks on my goldfish!

Question
QUESTION: Hi Christy,

You may remember me from a while ago - you helped out when I had a fish with swimbladder about a month ago, but unfortunately he didn't make it.  We recently got two new fish and (after quarantine) we introduced them into the new tank.  We had the three fish (one three year old, and the two new ones) in the tank happily for two weeks until one of the new ones started developing symptoms of swimbladder and died suggenly two days later.  That was a couple of days ago, and now our three year old has developed a some worrying red marks. He's a plain pale gold goldfish, about 6 inches from nose to tail, and he has a strange red 'vein' running on the last inch of his tail.  He also has a red mark just where his pectoral fin joins his body, but only on the one side.  It's blood red in colour but isn't bleeding.  The other new fish appears fine.

Just to give you some info on the tank, we have a 125 litre Juwel tank with a strong filter and a bubble wall.  We have gravel and 5 live plants, and do a 20-25% water change with a gravel vac every one-two weeks.  We use a 'tapsafe' product when we refil the tank, and feed them a variety of flakes, frozen and dried foods.  We regularly test the water to make sure all levels are fine.

Any advice you can give us to help out our three year old would be greatly received!  We've not come across symptoms like these before and can't bear the thought of losing another fish so soon!

Many thanks,
Laura (UK)

ANSWER: Hey Laura
Yes, I remember :)  

Read streaks on the fins, tail, or body is one of two things usually.  The first could be ammonia poisoning.  Adding the 2 fish to the tank could've been enough to trigger a mini cycle in the tank.  So first I would check the ammonia and nitrites and make sure they're at 0 ppm.  If they're not at 0, do a water change and just monitor the levels until they level out to 0.  

If the ammonia and nitrite are fine, then my next guess would be an internal bacterial infection called septicemia or hemorrhagic septicemia.  Best treatment for this would be to use an antibiotic/medicated food.  I'm not sure if you can get that across the big pond or not.  I recall somebody over there mentioning antibiotics for fish/animals weren't legal to sell?  I'm actually surprised we can buy them here in the US...but anyway...It's important to start treatment asap.  If you can't get the antibiotic food, and you can get some kind of antibiotic, you could soak some of the fish food in the meds.  The important thing is to get the meds inside the fish, so something just dumped in the water most likely won't help any.  I know off hand one product name is Medi-Gold, antibacterial goldfish food.  It's a pellet based food, I don't recall what antibiotic is in it though.  

Try to do those water changes at least once a week, 25% is good.  Especially with goldfish, people say they're a "messy" fish.  They're not really messy, I know mine get every last drop of food and eat it, but they do put out a bit more ammonia naturally through their breathing and waste.  Also, don't add anymore, just leave no more then 2 in that size tank.  The minimum recommendations for goldfish is 15 gallons for 1 goldie(57 litres).  And, not sure if I mentioned this to you before, but when you feed them, soak their food first so it sinks.  With the flakes, I usually put those in the filter "waterfall" area, so it pushes the flakes around the water as opposed to floating at the top.  Frozen will usually sink-be sure to thaw it first though.  And I remember reading somewhere that you should also soak the freeze dried food in some tank water first, I guess there can be some air built up in them.  Goldfish are really susceptible to swimbladder problems(like you're sadly finding out), and sinking the food so they don't gulp the food at the surface helps a bit with that so they're not gulping air with the food.  If you can't find the medicated food, but can get an antibiotic, the freeze dried food would probably be the best to soak the meds in.  If it's a liquid, just pour that into a small bowl with the food, if it's a powder/capsule type add a bit of tank water to the bowl, mix in the powder, then add the food and let it soak for a bit.

Also, if it's not the ammonia or nitrites causing it, if the fish isn't being stressed or picked on by the other fish, you could leave it in there and just feed both of them the medicated food.  If it is stressed, then I'd move it to the QT tank.  

Well good luck and hope he gets better!  Let me know how it goes!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,

Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly.  I haven't come across antibiotic goldfish food before but I'll get down to the pet store this afternoon and check it out!  I'll also get a water testing kit and test the water myself (we normally get it done for us at a pet shop, but I want to be 100% certain all is well!)

Thanks again, and I'll let you know how we get on!
Laura

ANSWER: It doesn't have to be specifically for goldfish, I just mentioned that brand name I'd remembered it off hand.  There's other varieties for all fish as well.  

Good idea on your own test kit.  Not sure about there, but our store's here will say that a small amount of ammonia is ok, and tell people their ph is off if it's not at 7.0...which is both wrong.  If it's not too late, the dropper-test tube kits are better and more accurate then the dipstick test kits.  They also cost quite a bit more though.
 
Look forward to hearing back!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,

Your hunch was right - it's not possible to get medicated fish food over here unfortunately.  I did buy a water test kit (they only had dipstick ones) but it only tests for Nitrate, Nitrite and Ph - not ammonia.  I've got an ammonia test on backorder and should have it by Friday.

I did an initial dipstick test and the Ph was 6.8, the Nitrite was 0 and the Nitrate was between 10 and 25mg.  We did a 50% water change about 4 hours ago, and I've just tested the water again and there is no change in the results.  The info with the test says Nitrates up to 50mg is ok, but I'm still worried that there's any in there at all...what is the ideal level of nitrates?  And any tips on reducing the level in our tank, other than more regular water changes?

Thanks ever so much,
Laura
ANSWER: Hi Laura
Dipstick test is better then nothing.  Nitrite is good at 0, nitrates are also ok.  People used to say keep them under 40, now they're saying to keep them under 20, so sounds like it's good.  That's what I meant when I said some of the test kits and pet stores will say a higher number is safe....just try to maintain it under 20 and you should be fine.  Nitrates are safe, that's the end by product so to say, of the ammonia the fish put out.  The only way to really keep them down, is doing water changes, sorry :)  Once a week, 25% of the water is usually sufficient to keep the levels in check.

Got any tetracycline leftover from when you were sick?  If so, you can open a capsule, sprinkle a little in a bowl with tank water and fish food.  It's funny, pets and people get the same medicines prescribed to them, just different dosages, and usually one's a lot cheaper then the other, or whether you have insurance or not lol.  They actually sell bottles of amoxicillin and tetracycline-for fish here-at the local farmer's coop(place where they sell farming supplies and feed etc.) Says on the bottle for fish only-but it's the same thing the dr. and vets prescribe...I haven't used it on myself, but did use it on my dogs before.  Anyway, that would work, and all you would really need is one or two of those capsules, because you won't use the whole capsule/powder for one feeding, just a small amount.  

I just did a quick search, I found this product, I don't know anything about it though.  It says it treats septicemia, here's a link with the info on it:

http://www.aquariumsuperstore.co.uk/mall/kingbritishbacteriacontrol.asp

Try asking at the store if they know if it works.  I can't see what ingredients are in it though.  I still like my first idea better though...like I said originally, it's best to get the meds inside the fish when treating for an internal infection.  I don't know if that "antibiotic ban" is through all of Europe, or just in the UK, maybe next time you take a road trip to Europe check it out and maybe even pick some up some if they sell it there.  I used to visit some online fish forums years ago, a lot of people from Scotland & England on there, makes me wonder what they did for those kinds of problems.  There has to be a way around it....

Good luck and let me know how it goes!

Christy



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,

I finally got hold of an ammonia testing kit and there is absolutely none in our water, which is a good thing!  The red mark by his fin has gone now, but his tail still isn't 100%.  Unfortunately I don't have any sort of medicine myself - the only antibiotic I ever get is penisillin, and that's always in a tablet rather than capsule form, and I don't currently have any anyway.  So I can't really see anyway of getting any antibiotics into the fish that way...I've also checked out that product you gave me a link for, and in the pet store they said that the symptoms of my fish weren't severe enough for anything that strong - they seemed to think that his tail would clear up in time.  

So, I have no ammonia, no nitrite and an acceptable amount of nitrate - so the water is fine - shall I just keep an eye on him and leave him to it?

Thanks for all your help,
Laura

Answer
Hi Laura
At this point, that's probably the best you can do now.  That's good if the one is clearing up, hopefully the other will as well.  Maybe it did go through a mini cycle, and it finished by the time you got the ammonia test kit to test the water.  Just keep up with the water changes every week, be sure to vary his diet with different foods, and just keep an eye on him.

Good luck with him!  

Christy