55 Gallon Test Results

Question
QUESTION: Hi Nicole,

April again!  What a week it's been.  My two mollies were attacked by the two new platies and I had to put them in a 3.25 gallon hospital bucket to treat for their injuries before I discovered what had happened.  One nearly had his entire tail picked off.  I had no idea the female was pregnant but the next day she delivered fry in the bucket, prematurely I presume from stress, because 7 of the 11 were stillborn with the egg sacks still attached.  I did not want the fry and the adults together so I bought a 55 gallon tank and put my two orandas, Brutus and Helga.  I moved the 4 platies, 2 white clouds and the ADF to the 16 gallon BiOrb and I put the two adult mollies in the 10 gallon leaving the 4 fry in the 3.25 gallon.  3 more of the remaining 4 fry were dead the next morning, I just don't think they were mature enough to have a chance.  The mollies had been recovering wonderfully until today, they started to exhibit swim bladder behavior this morning and both died this afternoon almost at the exact same time.  But now, here we go with cycling the 55 gallon!  It's been running for 3 days now.  I tested the water today out of curiosity and this is where my questions come in.  Temp is 72, ammonia tested 0, pH was 7.8.  I sort of expected that but what puzzled me was why the nitrite test was 0.25 and the nitrate was 7.5 (it was more orange than the 5.0 but less than the 10.0).  I thought ammonia had to register before these two tests would register anything?  When would it be safe to add more orandas?  I would like to add three more, putting five total in there.  As always, thanks!

ANSWER: Hi April,

Wow! What a week, indeed! Mollies, like other fish in the family Poeciliidae, can store sperm for several months, so do not need to have a male present in order to give birth...it can take many months before a livebearer is "clean" again. Virgin mollies are difficult to find!

Fry are indeed difficult to raise if immature and unsettled. They are very sensitive to sudden changes in water quality or chemistry. Many livebearer fry can be raised on crushed flake and other homemade foods (such as boiled egg yolk) but unless you have somewhere to put the fry, or can raise them until they are large enough to trade in, I wouldn't do anything extraordinary to encourage breeding. A few will probably survive in the main tank the next time your molly drops fry, and if there is sufficient plant cover, they will probably live. Established tanks with algae are especially helpful when attempting to raise fry, since the fry pick on all the surfaces and seem to get lots to eat this way.

Did you add old filter media, or gravel, to the filtration unit in the 55 gallon tank? This will speed things up considerably. If you used old water from B & H's old tank, this doesn't do much for cycling, but can explain why the water quality reads as such. Your tank does sound like it is indeed "over the hump" of ammonia in the water. Two different kinds of bacteria are responsible for cycling, one takes care of ammonia, turning it into nitrite, and one takes care of nitrite, turning it into nitrate. It is possible to have nitrite, and nitrate. My guess is you used something from one of your established tanks to introduce the sort of beneficial bacteria that turns ammonia into nitrite, and it has colonized the tank.

Good job, whatever you did! Don't add fish until nitrites are 0 ppm. Adding an organic source of ammonia (besides fish) will speed things along...the most convenient, perhaps, is to feed a pinch of flakes to your 55 gallon tank daily. You could also add a salad shrimp and let it dissolve in the tank, this actually lets you "see" the process of cycling a bit. Eventually, you will end up with a greyish goo and it will appear as though something has "consumed" the bit of seafood. Use your gravel vacuum to vacuum up any that is left over.

Do be patient, as a 55 gallon tank is much larger than a 16 gallon tank, and may take a while to get going - however the best news is that used filter media is just like a little pouch of Bio Spira...live beneficial bacteria - and it's free! I would not add any more orandas until at least a month has elapsed. Do not add your full bio-load until about three months from now, would be my suggestion. You may find that, when fully mature, five goldfish is one too many. However, it is really up to you, I am no one to talk...

I have a really overstocked 55 gallon tank with 20 (!) African cichlids...they are hybrids from an accidental breeding, I have nowhere else to put them and I don't believe trading them in is the right thing, considering they are mixed. So I just deal with the crowdedness. I have two hang-on back filters rated for 30 gallons each, and a canister filter rated for 60 gallons. A powerhead and an airstone provide additional aeration. Needless to say, I do fairly big water changes weekly (30-40%) and rinse the filter media often. I also use Purigen and Easy Balance. Other than the tank looking like a disaster thanks to their adorable digging habits, everyone seems very happy.

I hope that helps, take care again!
Nicole

P.S. If I haven't already, let me share these with you:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/food.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm

A diet light in commercial foods, heavy on aquatic or terrestrial vegetables, is highly recommended to avoid buoyancy issues. Investigate New Life Spectrum's foods for goldfish - these are truly revolutionary pellets, and that's not something I say lightly! I use their cichlid formula, it's the staple food of my African cichlids. Their color is fantastic, and they have never gotten Malawi bloat, which they are quite susceptible to.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Nicole,

All good to know!

Well, with the mollies deaths I won't have to worry about additional fry.  And I won't be getting anymore mollies.  They were beautiful fish but I was upset all day over their deaths.  If the one remaining molly fry lives I'll find someone with a molly tank to take her.  I would LOVE to keep her and put her in the BiOrb when she's big enough but I have a feeling putting her in with the platies will not do well as the orange platy seemed to hate my mollies (it was really only the orange platy in particular that picked on the mollies, she just seems to be a bratty fish).  I've been feeding the baby molly 'first bites' powder 4 times a day and changing the water 100% daily to maintain good water quality.  She has a 10 gallon filter with a nylon so she doesn't get sucked in, and a heater at 78 degrees.  She actively swims and eats so I really do hope she makes it, even if I won't get to keep her.

We have a water softener in the house, what can I add to my water to make it hard water if that's what I need for my goldfish and platies' tanks?

I know you don't like the BiOrbs, and I agree knowing what I know now that they are not for goldfish at all but the 4 platies, 2 white clouds and the ADF seem to love it.  No more fin clamping, and no more fighting with each other.  I know it's round but it is 16 gallons and they do have a little more space in it than they did in the 10 gallon.  They do laps around the tank together and the ADF has plenty of media to hide in.  He actually swims more now and I haven't seen him pick at the fish or the fish pick at him in 3 days.  That tank has been running since the end of November so it should be coming to a close on the cycling and I don't plan to add any more fish to it.

Oddly enough I used nothing from my BiOrb in the new 55 gallon because I put the platies/white clouds in the 16 gallon BiOrb that used to be home to the orandas.  We used a brand new filter (60 gallon hang on), 2 new filter cartridges (I did add marineland's ammo reducing chips to them since all they had was activated carbon), new gravel, and all new water.  I took your advice and bought Seachem's Prime and that's all I added to the water aside from some Easy Balance and Stress Zyme.  It's only been running for three days, Brutus and Helga went in as soon as the water/conditioners were added since we had the disaster with the sick mollies and baby fry and had to play musical tanks to accommodate everyone.  That's why I cannot understand why there is no ammonia but nitrites and nitrates are already showing up...after only 3 days?!  In beginning with the BiOrb it was always the opposite, no nitrites and nitrates, only horrible ammonia.  Well, more than anything, I wanted to make sure they weren't in danger.  Thanks!

Answer
Hi April,

I am not very knowledgeable about this, but it is my understanding that water that has been through a softener is considered inappropriate for aquarium use because it hasn't really been made "soft" - but rather, had the hardness replaced with sodium ions. In some cases, potassium pellets are used to soften the water - this sounds like a better idea to me and seems like it would be less of a problem, but I am no expert here. The water softening device is not intended to do anything except keep your pipes from getting limescale deposits, which is of benefit to dishwashers and washing machines, but not aquariums. What I would recommend you do is use water from the outside faucet (where the hose connects) because this is not usually water that has been treated. You may wish to fill up a 5 gallon drum and then let this water sit somewhere (like your garage or utility room) so that it reaches room temperature. Even if your aquarium is heated to 78 degrees, it is fine to do a water change with room temperature water which may be a little cooler, provided you are not doing a large percentage, i.e. >50%.

If you have a water softener in your house, then probably your water is naturally hard...with goldfish, the harder and more alkaline the water, the better, so use the water from outside, which is almost certainly not treated by the softener. You may wish to ask the experts at wetwebmedia.com:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
Besides magazines, this is where I have most often seen the "water softener water is not appropriate for keeping fish" bit mentioned. Again, potassium tablets might be different than salt-based water softeners...I wish I could offer more advice, but I just don't know here.

Hmm, I'm surprised then. I really expected you to have used old water or used filter media, or gravel...or *something* to have gotten that cycle moving faster. Maybe it is just the work of the ammonia removing media? (Probably Zeolite, I am guessing?) Just keep an eye out and keep testing the water, but I am fairly certain that you will not see ammonia registering...however, it is important that you get that nitrite down from 0.25 to zero. All in due time! Just make sure you don't add more fish until nitrite is a flat zero.

I have probably already mentioned this, but eventually you may tire of replacing filter cartridges. While they seem convenient, they are expensive and eventually it gets tiresome to have to keep running out and buying more. The foam sponges and Biomax from AquaClear are what I use in all my hang-on back filters, regardless of what brand they are (since AquaClear media comes in so many sizes). I only rinse the media twice a month or so, in dechlorinated water, and it keeps the tank very stable and clean for almost no cost, just the initial investment of the different media. Chemi-Pure and Purigen are what I use instead of activated carbon - they achieve the same effect but last much longer, carbon lasts about a week at most. Most online e-tailers sell both these kinds of media for cheaper than retail.

Good luck with everything, and congats on the new tank! Now I'm going to bed, even though it's 7:30, because I seem to be catching a cold again...ugh.

Take care,
Nicole