Septicemia

Question
QUESTION: Hello, I am hoping you can help me regarding goldfish septicemia. First of all please allow me to fill you in on my background of fish care--i have none accept what i have learned over the last 3 years, going day by day with what began as a simple feeder fish 3 years ago to entertain my one year old son, to now he is a 6 inch member of our family, in a 20 gallon aqaurium with 4 other goldfish! I have spent so much money over the years learning about how filthy they are, their amonia distribution, proper water changes, and proper filtration systems: air pumps, tetra systems, etc.  So over the years, I feel i have learned a lot, but now am in a bind cause i have never heard of septicemia until about 3 hours ago, when i did my routine water change cause and began noticing about 2 weeks ago, all 5 of the goldfish began acting lathargic, grouping on the bottom corner of the tank, not eating, and then today: "Wow!  Why does 'Dream Machine' have red streaks all throughout his tail?"

So i hopped on Google a few hours ago, and found out a lot about Septicemia.  So my question for you is precisely this: Where do i begin? i am quite sure all 5 have it, but mostly noticable in the fancy goldfish. If i hadnt noticed him today, i wouldnt have even LOOKED at the other 4 fish, other than noticing their behavior change in the last 2 weeks. But after closely observing all fish from what i learned online this evening, then yes i am going to assume all 5 have it. 2 for sure, yes. the other 3 i am assuming by how red their fins have turned from simple orange. and the 2 for sure have white fins that i can actually see the red streaks. Now, i believe i also learned this evening that there is a difference between septicemia and tail rot? i am quite sure it is NOT tail rot. Tails look fine, just the red streaks through them, and the fancy fish has it not only throughout his fins but under his belly as well.

So thank you in advance for allowing me to take up your time, it is greatly appreciated! I cant believe how much we went from a 10 cent feeder fish in a goldfish bowl, to having a family of these fish now and finding out we are probably screwed and they will now all die. Are we hopeless at this point with 5 suffering from this? I have googled much varied information on if they will live or not, and because the advice varying so much on websites i finally decided to ask allexperts as you guys have helped me in the past when i began to expand our goldfish family and upgrade tanks.

i am very appreciative of allexperts and value your advice highly!

So Mr. Expert: Where do i begin in my mission to save our fish and how if at all possible? and if it is fatal, about how much longer can i expect them to live if they have had it for about 2 weeks now (that i know for sure by behavior alone)?

Thank you again!

Jamie in Sacramento  


ANSWER: Hi Jamie:  I would start with a heavy duty antibiotic such as Maracyn-2.  You will have to remove the carbon filter for this treatment as the carbon will absorb all of the medication.  I would assume that all the goldfish have it because it is very contagious.  I will give you a shopping list below.  You will need to get the water tested too to find out what the water chemistry levels are.  Septicemia is usually caused by high ammonia, etc. So let me know what the water chemistry is.  You can take a sample to the fish store and most will test this for you for free...
Shopping list:

1) Maracyn 2
2) aquarium salt
3) a large bottle of beneficial bacteria
4) brine shrimp

Four goldfish in a 20 gallon tank is too many... the rule of thumb for goldfish is one goldfish per ten gallons of water.  This is because they produce high quantities of ammonia which leads to septicemia... a bacterial infection of the blood stream.... The oldest living goldfish in history was 43 years old... so I would expect them to live for a long time... They can also grow up to 1.5 feet in length.... If possible I would move them to a 55 gallon tank.. and keep the 20 gallon up and running to be used as a hospital tank...   if you have other questions let me know... dave



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so much! I am so excited to tell my 12 year old daughter, she's been worried and I promised her I would do everything I could. Now to figure out where the HELL to put a 55 gallon tank! Ok, so items 2-4, what do I do with those? Or just follow directions labeled on them? I will be busy tomorrow shopping I see! I am so appreciative of your help! I feel better now too.  I am so afraid these guys are suffering.  I will email you as things go, and maybe some more questions along the way if that's ok! But I promise I will let you know how they are doing...Thank you, Dave!

-Jamie :-)

Answer
the aquarium salt you use in conjunction with the medication... it helps the fish to breath with medication in the tank and it is also a good preventitive... or in this caas a boost to the medicaiton.  The bottole of bacteir you will need to help restore your beneficial colonies of bacteria once the medication is done... medication often kills off those colonies too.  The bacteria are what help to control ammonia, etc.  The brine shrimp you feed to the fish durring the medication because the the theory is you help to boost their immune system from the inside out...  ask me all the quesitons you need too... im happy to help... dave