Aggresive Marble Veiled Angelfish

Question
QUESTION: I have a 54 Gallon Corner Tank.  NO Ammonia, No Nitrite, 10ppm Nitrates, 7.4 PH. 78 Temp.  I have one kissing gourami, four corys, four Cardinal Tetras, one Frog Pleco.  I recently went to put my Angelfish back into the 54 gallon (she was in a hospital tank for fin issues).  She has always chased the gourami when they were both in a smaller 14 gallon tank, so I bought the 54 gallon giving them more space, thinking this would help.  Oh NO!  She is so bad, she chased EVERYONE, they were all hiding.  So, unfortunately, I don't think she is going to work out in that tank.  I probably will put her in a 29 gallon by herself.  I can't believe I have to get a separate tank just for her, when I have this beautiful 54 corner.  Any suggestions.  The 54 is heavily planted with live and fake plants, but even though there are hiding places I worry the other fish being bullied will get stressed and sick.  Thanks for any input you may have.  These Angels should be listed as VERY AGGRESSIVE, not SEMI AGGRESSIVE, as sites do.  Have a lovely Day.  Wanny

ANSWER: Hi Wanny,
The real name of the Angel Fish is "petroleum scalaire" which is a little scarier.  They are cichlids, and cichlids are aggressive, and territorial fish.  They should not be mixed in with other fish except "semi aggressive: fish.  I know your thinking very aggressive, but believe me there are fish out there that are much much more aggressive than the Angel Fish.  The only fish I mixed in with Cichlids (South American Cichlids) are Rainbow fish.  A school of 6 rainbow fish really calms the aquarium down.  As they are swimming about the aquarium, the Cichlids soon forgets who he was going to attack...lol
Unfortunately she will want to make her territory chasing every fish in your aquarium away...this could result in stress for your fish, and then disease.  She will continue to chase away any fish that comes into her territory,  and her territory is probably 20 gallons of water...lol  I'm laughing because I have been through this, and breed them. I had an Angel who use to scare my Oscar...no kidding, and all he had to do was open his mouth and swallow her...but he sat quietly in the corner letting her boss him around!!
She will have to have her own aquarium, maybe add little rams in with her, and hiding places for the rams, but don't forget, rams are cichlids too, and even though smaller than many, they have that character too.  Your water PH should be between 6.5 and 7.0 for Angel Fish and Rams.  The water temperature should be 80 degrees for the Angel Fish, and rams.
I would like to mention one more thing...The Kissing Gourami will become a big fish, and I mean big, too big for your 54 gallon tank.  The other fish know this.  The Angel fish knows this, and she will defend her territory to the very end....Also sometimes it is the other way around the Kissing Gourami could attack an Angel Fish...so maybe she is defending herself along with the territory.  It is too bad because a 54 gallon makes a beautiful aquarium for Angel fish.  If you ever do get 3 or 4 more angels to put in your 54 gallon, if you change your mind on gouramis, make sure they will be of equal size or a little bit bigger than the one you have now.
Hope this will help a little.
Lynda

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks! Yes, funny, but husband doesn't think so! LOL. To think, this all started with 1 Gourami (got him from someone that didn't want him anymore). I only planned on having the 54 gal. Now I have a 10 gal quarantine, a 14 gal with the Angel, and the 54 gal. I wonder if my Gourami is a Dwarf, because he is about 5 years old and is only about 4-5 inches. However, he has been housed in very small tanks, maybe that has stunted his growth? Also, how do you correctly measure a fish, from tail to head, or base of tail to head? I would be afraid to add ANY fish in my soon to be 29 gal with the angel, if I have the same problem I won't be able to deal!!!  Will she be stressed being alone, or the king/queen of the castle?  Maybe some the rams, as suggested. Angel does not seem to bother the corys? I think it is a male, cause of the bump on its head. When the gourami goes to heaven(one day)or gets too big, I will give him to my brother, he has a 72 gal. Then Angel can have the 54 gal. I NEVER thought I would be so OBSESSED with FISH! Also, I purchased a clam, then sadly had to freeze it as soon as it came (to humanly euthanize), so sad, because I read and confirmed with seller that although very rare, they can produce 1000 juvies that will attach to fish gills, didn't want to take that change. Of course, I strongly recommended to the seller that they give this information for the clam when selling. Any opinion on that?  Thanks again. Wanny

ANSWER: Hello,
Kissing Gouramis will grow to 8-12 inches...maybe his growth was stunted.  Poor thing, what some people do to fish, you would not believe.  You measure a fish from his tail to his head.  You cannot rely on this when stocking a tank.  The rule of the thumb does not apply.  For instance, an Oscar will grow to 15 inches, he needs at least a 60 gallon tank all to himself.  Wicked little angel, isn't she..lol  If you ever do put another Angel in with her, I wouldn't wait too long, before she gets too comfortable in her new home.  I would buy a bigger one, and hope for the best.  I would take a chance on rams, they usually stay more at the bottom of the tank, while the Angel takes the middle.  Kissing Gouramis also take the middle of the tank which I guess she did not like.  lol  It is hard to tell the difference between a male and a female.  I have been breeding them a long time, and females have bumps too.  It is quite impossible to know until you have a breeding pair.  Some vendors, don't care, they are there to sell, and will do, and say anything to sell.  It just turns my stomach over.  The Oscar, and the Betta are two of the most mistreated fish on the market...and there are more.  People should read up on fish before buying them because they rarely get good information in the Pet Store.  Some really don't know anything about fish, some lie, they just don't care.  That they would sell you a clam knowing that you have fish, is just mind boggling!  Juvies do attach themselve to fish gills for transportation...I don't know too much about clams, never had them in my aquariums, and wouldn't want one either.  I'm not into snails either for the simple reason that if they die, and we don't notice it right away, it will poison all your water.  So, I just go with fish...lol
Lynda

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I agree completely, I wish I would have read more about the clam prior to purchase. I do extensive research on all my fish. As you bring up the fact about dead snails poisoning the fish, it concerns me that when I purchased natural substrate for the plants in the beginning of my new 54 gal tank, it came along with very rare Freshwater Limpets, eggs must have been in the substrate because there was nothing in the tank, not even plants or fish, while it was cycling.  Anyways, they are algae eaters and very very tiny, like 3mm. I periodically kill them so they won't over populate (of course this upsets me, as I have a hard time killing any creature)however, they are so small there is no way for me to kill them and then fish them all out of the tank.  Maybe I need a clown loach? Also, I have about 50 cory eggs on the side of the tank and I am concerned about the babies when they hatch and most likely some of them will die. I do gravel vacuum and water changes approx. once a week and hope this will help with any dead Limpets or Cory babies, do you think that is sufficient? My hubby said just kill the eggs and suck them up with vacuum (battery operated, nice device)of course, this too makes me upset, but what can I do. I AM CRAZY and have a UV Sterilizer, a Wet/Dry Filter, a Magnum Micro Filter and a Diatom Filter(I run every other day for few hours)all on the 54, hopefully this is enough over kill to keep the tank clean if these creatures die?  I think the Angel will just have to be by herself, if I buy another angel and they are at war, then I will need yet ANOTHER tank. I would surely get kicked out by hubby LOL. As you write about fish size and gallons needed, it seems crazy, I mean if an angelfish needs a minimum of 30 gallons and you have three then that would mean you need a 90 gallon tank, etc. How do you really know how much room you have for each fish? I use the inch of fish per gallon? Thanks again for all your imput. Wanny

Answer
Hi!
An Angel fish will need 15 gallons of water all to herself, so three Angel fish need 45 gallons.  Your Angel is very aggressive, and seems to be taking all the tank to herself, it happens...not only with Angel fish, but other cichlids also.  Cichlids are aggressive, and territorial fish.  They cannot be mixed with gouramis. Not in my book!!  I keep cichlids with cichlids, and do not mix them except for a school of Rainbow fish, and I never had a problem.  African Cichlids are another story.
To get rid of your snails a clown loach would love to feast on them, they love them.  Your kissing gourami must eat some too, only he is not as good at getting them like clown loaches are.  If you do get a botia, get two, they love to play, just like the cory catfish.  You could put a lettuce leaf with a suction cup to secure it, and you will find many little pest feasting on it.  Do this before going to bed.  Next morning lift it out, and throw it away...or flush it , they will survive wherever they go...lol  Only do this with snails!  Of course, you will not be able to get all of them this way, but you will keep the population down.  
Cory eggs, so cute..I guess you have no choice, let them be, maybe some will make it, but you need to clean your water every week.  If they were in an aquarium by themselves, you would have to feed them baby brine shrimp for a while, and do water changes every day.  The parents do not look after their young.
You must make sure that the fish in your tank have lots of room to swim.  The rule of the thumb does not apply.  Can you see a 15 inch Oscar in a 15 gallon tank?  This is a horrible thought.  (I recently had a letter from this little boy who told me that the Pet shop owner told him that a 10 gallon tank would be perfect for an Oscar!)  Stories like this one, I read often, and it upsets me so much!  You must always read before you buy.  The Pet Shop owner would not take the fish back, so now the kid doesn't know what to do...  When you buy fish, always read up on how big they do get, this gives you a good idea on how much space they need....it seems to be 4 gallons to every inch.  Now, if you bought a fish that is 8 inches, he would need 30 gallons of water, 2 fish 60 gallons....depending on the fish, and if they are bottom, middle, or top swimmers, you would go from there, and then maybe add bottom fish, or top swimming fish.  You always have to make sure they have enough room to swim.  The Oscar like I mentioned needs a 60 gallon tank just to himself, with no other fish, unless you get a bigger tank.  So, 4 gallons to one inch of fish seems to always be the answer.
I had problems with my hubby too...lol...would you believe that I hid 32 tanks from him!  Yes, 32 20-50 gallon tanks!  He never went down the basement, and I had it well separated in case he did go down, so had all my breeding tanks set up down there...lol  I am a fish nut, and cannot kill a fly!!  When he found this out, no use telling you how angry he was...it kind of put a damper in our marriage..lol  I will never forget the expression on his face!!
Have a nice day
Lynda