well broke gelding getting behavior problems

Question
QUESTION: Hi

I found your site by googling on horse behavior and thank goodness i did or i might not get any help with this and im afraid this might be a longer question, so sorry in advance but i just want to make sure on all of this and get the best help i can. I have recently purchased a 12 year old grade quarter horse. He is supposedly "super broke" and almost calm enough for any level rider. I rode him down where he was being boarded and he rode great with the other horse on the trail, and then i wanted to see how he rode on his own(i have a mini horse so he would be the only riding size horse and i have had problems with herd sourness in the past) and he walked right thru a small sized door(like a house door) and he had to step over a board and he was fine with that. And then i rode him in the arena and he tested me(both on the trail and in the arena) but that is to be expected because i was an unfamiliar rider and he was just seeing what he could do. I didnt let him get away with barely anything and he wanted to go outside because his friends were getting fed but he didnt do anything dangerous, just kinda tried going over to the door and stopping, but i got him moving again. He neck reins and the owner got on him and showed me that he could be ridden in a halter and a lead rope if i wanted to and he took the bridle off of him and showed me that he would spit it out and take it right back without a problem. And he picked up his feet without anyone holding him and i did also and he did fine. He trailers great. He is apparently from a ranch in Wyoming and just got sold because the youngsters needed riding so he has been worked with cattle and the guy i bought him from threw a rope off him and said he didnt mind too much. He is a wonderful horse and the only reason i was able to purchase him (his original price was $1,700) was because another horse bit him and he had bite marks all over him, so he dropped the price down to $1000 because he wasnt sure finicky people would look past that. So i decided i would get him and the day before i was ready to get him the owner informed me that there was a case of girth itch going thru the boarding area and he would give me some stuff to treat it. Well when he got here he put the halter on him and took him out and he was alert and a little confused with all my goats around but he didnt act up or anything and the owner walked him around the pen showing him the boundiares and then he told me just give him a day to settle in so i did and he didnt mind Elvis(the mini horse, he is in a smaller pen inside his, so they share a barn but this is so Elvis cannot get hurt by him) and he settled in a didnt whinny at all, just kinda took things in. Well i let him settle in then started working with him on the ground and i tried grooming him but he didnt like the smell of the brushes(i washed them in hot water, as they were my last horses brushes) so i just let him smell each one and he let me brush him a little. but i didnt want to push things being in a new place. And he let me pick up his feet without a problem and pick them out. But i havent been able to get him out of the pen because a few days after i got him we got about 6 inches of snow or more and now it is icy everywhere and i dont want anything bad happening so i am just working with him in his pen where i know it is safe. But his girth itch stopped with the cold weather we have been having but it has been entirely too cold to ride at the moment. But for the past few days he has been acting out some and i dont want it escalating. I put my hand a few inches above his girth itch to get a better look at it and he started pawing, i instantly scolded him for this by using a strong tone and he stopped for the time being. But then a few minutes later i picked up one of his front feet and he let me have it for maybe 20 seconds before trying to pull it away from me several time but i didnt allow it and when he stopped pulling i let his leg down. And then i leaned on him, like if you were to put weight in the stir-ups and he stepped away from me(when i rode him down at his old home he tried this but i assumed this was him testing me and the owner held him still and then when the owner rode him he stood still). And then a couple days ago i was just feeling him all over and running my hands on him and i came to his butt and just put some pressure on him and he lifted his leg up, as maybe saying if you dont stop im gunna kick and i scolded him for that. Now i know he is sound because his last owner had him vet checked, chriopractic(spelling?) adjustment and he is up to date on everything else. Now i dont know when i will be able to saddle up and ride but i do not want him keeping this behavior up or it escalating into something worse. And he lunged at Elvis for no particular reason(this seemed to be the beginning of the behavior) and i wasnt quite sure for this, but Elvis is only 6 months and isnt able to be gelded at the moment, so i wasnt sure if he thought he needed to put him in his place or something. But i havent had the best of luck with horses in the past. My first horse was when i was 9 and he was a yearling...bad idea, he wasnt broke and wasnt the best match for me but then we ended up getting a well broke qh/tb cross and she was good except the saddle the owners loaned us was a pony saddle and that was uncomfortable for her and we didnt know this til after selling her(we were very green with horses then) but we had to sell both of them because we were renting and the property owners said sell them or keep them on the cement, so we decided to sell them. And then when i was 12 i got a VERY herd sour mare with a past that may have involved abusing....another bad idea she was great riding with another horse but another story when by herself and she was the only horse when we got her and she buddied up with my goats and was a pain to ride without one walking next to her. so we weren't able to ride her alot. But then a gift from God in my mind came to me. A purebred, papered, QH gelding, 7 years old. Great horse!!! We got him, his tack, and his other equipment for $600 because the owner was friends with my mom and her boyfriend said sell him and she did not want him going to an auction so we got him. And he had been by himself for sometime and he had to be sedated to trailer(someone who was gunna buy him slammed the door on his butt and he spooked and got out of the trailer and they decided they didnt want him anymore) but once he was 100% again we got along great we played tag and he was just wonderful with everything. And i learned to cinch up on my own and he would just stand there...not caring and we all fussed with him and he took it and when he didnt know what we asked when riding he would just stop and wait. His only downfall was he took a while to take the bit. but i worked with him on this and we made slow progress. Well then we got LOTS of goats and he needed to move in with my herd sour mare and he did fine at first and then he didnt want to leave her and then i purchased an appy/QP and he was in by himself and i worked with him and my other 2 and then my goats started having kids and i lost alot of time so i made a very sad decision to let all 3 go, but thankfully they went to a family friend who only lives a few miles from us. But now i am having problems with this horse. And i dont have any experienced horse friends near me to help me so this is my only choice. And im afraid when i finally cinch him up he is going to act up because of his girth itch...or where it used to be and i dont want this or any other problems. I am 16 and homeschooled so i have alot of time now and i have sold alot of my goats. Do you have any suggestions? By the way. I dont have a corral at the moment, and supposedly he doesnt know how to longe, owner said he tried and he just looked at him like huh? Any help would be great. Thanks.

Kelli

ANSWER: Hi Kelli,
         I need to ask you a few questions so that I can help you better :-). What size pen is this horse in? What are you feeding him? How much experience do you have with training horses. Is Elvis aggressive at all? Did you have him vet checked? Does he have turn out?

Lisa

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi

He is in a decent size pen for one horse. I had to horses in a slightly smaller pen and they were comfortable, but i have since then added a little more area to it so i believe it to be quite big enough for 1 horse to move around in. I dont know the exact measurements of it though. Beings i am not working him hard he isnt on grain yet, but i am thinking of putting him on just a little bit of sweet feed twice a day, but im not sure yet, maybe a cup or so if i do, until he starts getting worked more. But he is currently getting grass hay twice a day and a little bit of alfalfa. I have never broke a horse to ride, but i have worked with yearlings and now my weanling on ground manners such as grooming, standing tied(im still working with my mini on that one), and feet handling, etc. I would consider myself barely a beginning intermediate when it comes to riding though, just because i havent been able to ride consistently in the past. I have not seen Elvis try to bite him when Sturgis(qh gelding) is standing close by his fence and ive never seen Elvis act out towards my buck who shares a small portion of the barn with them, and he has NEVER tried anything with me. The only thing i noticed was when i had just got Sturgis and they were getting to know each other Elvis would bite/nibble on him and Sturgis did the same...almost like they were giving each other a scratch and then Elvis may have actually of bitten him and Sturgis did a little squeal but that is all i have noticed. I have not had Sturgis vet checked by our vet. But he had a coggins pulled in late Oct. and i got him mid-Nov. Should i have our vet check him out? He has 24/7 access to get out of his barn and roam about his winter pen. In the summer he will have a very nice sized pasture to romp about in though. As for his girth itch...do you think i should just put the saddle on and slowly cinch him up just to get him used to it or do something different? Thanks.

Kelli

Answer
Kelli,
       The first thing you should do is get a complete vet exam done on him to make sure that he does not have any medical issues. A horse does not usually change his behaviors that drastically in such a short time unless there is an underlying issue. If he checks out ok, then you should look into sending him to a Trainer for 30 days to try and figure out where his problems are coming from. If you are unable to afford a Trainer, then see if you are able to find an adult to work with him to see if they have the same issues. The aggressiveness to Elvis is normal. He is just trying to assert himself as herd leader. I would keep him separated from him.  Regarding the grain, as long as he has free choice hay then he will be fine without it. Please let me know what the vet says.

Lisa