catching gelding

Question
QUESTION: I need your advice I have a 5 year old gelding, who I have owned since he was 3.  I am 35 now and owned ponies since I was 16 years old.  We have been through alot together, we worked hard on his groundwork, He pushed me to the limits on many occasions, barging me in the stall, running at me in the round pen and bucking when being ridden, we worked through all of these and he respected me as his leader he is the perfect gentleman in his stall, round pen and to ride now.  Now for my problem we moved yards a few months ago and it is a complete different set up, where as before my gelding along with 2 of my mares were turned out together in a large field all day and stalled at night, now he has to stay in his stall apart from 1 hour a day turnout(fields are very wet)he gets ridden or turned out into the round pen every day as well.  He is turned out with 3 other mares and my problem is catching him after his hour is up.  I have spoken to the yard owner who wont let me keep him out any longer as I know he needs it, when the weather gets better he will have longer.  When its time to come in he chases the mares to the other side of the field, when I walk to get him he turned kicks out and runs to the gate where I usually spend up to 20 mins encouraging him to be caught after he has kicked out a few more times, I do catch him in the end and he walks in like nothing has happened.  I have tried getting the mares in first, this does not bother him and he stays at the other side of the field.  I have tried growling at him the moment he looks if he is going to turn his back on me, I have even tried taking carrots to the field with me.  I know this is herd behaviour and he needs longer out in the pasture but i dont know how to get over this problem I am getting nervous of being kicked by him.  Any ideas on how i can go into the field and walk up to him without him turning and running.  Someone suggested that I take a lunging whip in the field with me and as soon as he turned whack him with it really hard.  I am not too sure about this as I have never had to hit him through all of our training together.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ANSWER: Hi Helen, this sounds like the a young gelding being a young gelding.  He is boxed up and knows that he has to go back to a stall when you catch him.  Sounds pretty normal to me as I would do the same thing if I were a horse.  I would have to see the kicking, but when I play chase with my gelding, he will kick up as he does to other horses, I know this is in play time so I do not correct it or make a big deal about it, I just know it may come and keep my distance.  However, if he is kicking at you to protect him mares or to push you away then I would think it was a disrespect issues that needs to be addressed.  Since you tell me you are chasing him, that is not good to teach him that he can run from you to escape pressure.

So the whip thing I do not like for a few reasons.  I don't use a whip to move a horse, I only use it to desensitize a horse, I want my horse to move when I tell him to not because he sees a whip and knows I can hit him with it.

This appears to a lose lose situation, the horse wants to stay out for good reason and you need to get him in within a timely manner.  Not a good situation for success for either of you.  

I would try and get mares first and ignore him and let him act as he wants and don't react.  After you catch mares, I would bring him a cup of his favorite grain in a bucket he knows only has grain.  You may have to get some sweet grain and give it to him a few times in a certain bucket so he knows that that bucket equals grain.  Then use that as bait to trick him to you.  Do not chase him with the grain, make him come to you and walk towards gate while he snacks on grain, if he really likes it he may just follow you back to his stall with no  lead rope, but you have decide if that is safe or not.

Normally I would not want to use food to catch a horse, but in this temporary situation, this may be the best way to work through this without getting into a fight each day and damaging the relationship.

The horse is seeing the halter and lead rope so  he knows that means I get caught.  If you had worked on leading him with a rope or string around his neck, you could use a carrot and just put a rope about his neck and lead him, I discuss on my web site and this is prefect situation where prior planning and sacking out will help you and your horse in different and difficult situations.

Hope this helps,

Rick

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Rick

thanks for answering my question so quickly, we had two days where we caught the mares first, then the gelding came straight to the fence and stood there for me to catch which was great.  Now things have gone from bad to worse, the yard owner went to get one of the mares in and the gelding chased her and kicked out (did not hit her) this caused the mare to spook and run off down the field with the gelding closely behind her.  Now the owner does not want my gelding out with the mares anymore, I am devasted as I was getting somewhere with him, there is no talking to her as she says he has become boss of the field and its to dangerous to get the mares in.  The mares went out in the field today and he stayed in, they all just stood and called for him for the whole hour they were out.
I need him to be outside, my only option is to put him in a established herd of 8 geldings.  My problem is that he is only 14 hands all the others are well over 16 hands and above and all wear shoes where he does not.  What is the best way to introduce him to this herd, should i just put him out and hope for the best, will they teach him some manners?  They all come to the gate when called to come in I am worried that he will cause havoc in this field as well.  My poor pony only wants to go out and have some fun.  What should I do for best.
Helen

Answer
Too bad so many horses have to suffer because of people lack of knowledge.  The lady that got kicked at has no one to blame but herself.  She allowed your horse to push her and move her, so your horse, being a horse, now thinks he can push her and he will do so.  No horses pushed me, ever, if they try, they get pushed back harder and more aggressive, so they learn that I am higher and they do not push me.  If I run from every horse, I would tell them all that they are higher and I am lower, much like this lady did to your horse.  Never the horses fault, but people sure do like to blame them for every thing.

As for you putting him in with eight other guys, I would do if you can leave him and not pull him out every hour.  Anytime you move horses in and out of herds you create problems.

If you can put him out when there is less horses like two or three that would be better, that way they can work out things and when other comes in he can meet and establish with each one.

So if there is a time with there are less horses out like early morning or late at night, do it then.

If you can let one or two meet him, stand tied together or buddy up that would be good too.

As long as the paster us big enough so he has room to run and not get trapped or cornered than he should be fine.  It is always a risk to put a new horse with others, but I would rather my horse get hurt trying than lock him up just to protect him.  It has to be your choice.  I would walk him out with the herd and you have a plastic bag or rope or something to scare off other horses.  Always walk the fence line with your horse before letting him out in a new pasture.  He can learn the boundries and see the fence, that way he is less likely to get chased and bildly run into a fence.  Corners is a horse worst enemy.  The get trapped and if the get pressured they feel they have no way out, so if the pasture has corners I would try and remove them with panels, rope or two by fours, it will help all the horses.  You can read about this on my horsemanship tips page on my site.


When walking him into the herd, be ready to push all the horses and make them all move away from, don't let them approach you or your horse until you walk the fence line.  By you moving them they will learn they can not push you or kick at you, it will also give you guy some confidence seeing you as his herd leader moving all the other horses.

Hope this helps,

Rick