possibly allergies? please HELP

Question
hi
chloe has been drinking and urinating a lot lately could the meclizine be giving her a dry mouth or is this a new problem?  she has also been getting gassy lately she starts pressing her stomach to the ground like she did when she was spayed and hurting and i give her some infant simethicone then she is fine, could the meclizine which is compouned with banana flavor (the only way i can get it in to her) be messing up her gut flora? if it is, is there anything i can do about it or will that go away?
michelle









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Followup To
Question -
hi

chloe had another vet appiontment last week and the vet says it is deffinately an allergy,  but she also said allergies in rabbits is rare and there is not much known about how antihistimines will effect her long term but we decided to try meclizine which is usually given to rabbits with head tilt but it was the only antihistimine there was a rabbit dose for and it has helped a lot and she is much happier, but i am wondering if you or if you know of anyone who has used this drug long term, and if it's safe.

also do you know of anywhere that might have info on allergies in rabbits?
Michelle




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Followup To
Question -
hi
sorry in the last follow up i forgot to ask pet medicine chest has an allergy supplement i was wondering if you have ever heard of it and if it is any good and would it be worth trying.
Michelle






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Followup To
Question -
hi
chloe's scratching off the fur at the base under her ears around her eyes and down the sides of her neck and just today there is a new spot starting on her back.
i forgot to mention that the vet did look at her teeth and said they were fine and in her ears and said they looked good to.
the benadryl is helping some but not much. is it writen anywhere that the benadryl is safe and the proper dose for a rabbit? so i could show the vet. could i be giving more than the 1mg twice a day. would putting her on a low dose of prednisone until we figure this out help or is there a stronger antihistimine i could give her?
this started in october and nothing had changed around that time it just came out of nowhere. since then i have changed the pellet brand, hay brand, laundry detergent her bedding is washed in, and anything else i could think of, but nothing worked.
Michelle







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Followup To
Question -
i have a spayed 2 year old holland lop named chloe. for months now she has been scratching off her fur and had red watery eyes. she has seen the vet who is very experienced with rabbits many times she has had skin scrapings done, fur pulled and tested, and a skin biopsy.
the scrapings and fur came back negative but she had the ivermectin shots (3 spaced 10-14 days apart) anyway just incase it's mites, and when that didn't work revolution.
the skin biopsy came back saying it's a lymphositic hypersensitivity reaction but the vet says she doesn't know what it could be to because allergies in rabbits are rare and she has been treated for mites.
right now she is taking 1mg of childrens benadrly twice a day and refresh eye drops to help sooth her eyes. the benadryl helps a little but not much. she is still really uncomfortable a lot of the time and unhappy a lot of days.  the vet says she doesn't even know if benadryl is safe to give to rabbits because she couldn't find a dose for it (she is getting a dose for a cat her size). but it's better than nothing.
is there any other medication we could try? do you have any ideas what this could be or what we could do to help her? anything would be appreciated. please help
Michelle

Answer -
Dear Michelle,

Is she scratching off her fur all over her body, or only in areas around her head and face?  Like your vet, I would have tried Revolution first.  But if that doesn't work, then this obviously is more than a case of mites.  

If the problem is pretty much restricted to her head and face, then the first thing I think of when I hear "Holland Lop" is "MOLAR SPURS" and/or molar root problems.  Since the molars are located right under the eyes, any congenital or pathogenic occlusion/blockage of the tear ducts will cause tears to back up, collect on the face and burn the skin.  In addition, if she has molar problems that are causing her to drool, the caustic saliva will burn the skin and cause the fur to fall out.  This is why I ask *where* the fur is falling out.

Benadryl is safe for bunnies.  Has it helped at all?  If not, you might want to ask the vet about something that *some* vets think is a HUGE no-no, but which others have found to be a godsend in such cases:  a small dose of a short-acting corticosteroid, such as dexamethasone.  If this helps stop the itching, then you'll know there's some kind of inflammatory response going on--but then it will lead you back to trying to find out *what* the allergen/irritant could be.

When did this problem first start?  At that time, did you change anything in the household?  Shampoo the carpet?  Have the house treated for pests?  Just brainstorming these aspects might lead you to some possible answers.

I'll wait to hear back from you about the locations of the fur loss.  But in the meantime, I hope some of this helps.

Dana
Answer -
Dear Michelle,

This really does sound like an allergic reaction to something.   I'll try to get a Benadryl dosage for you, but the cat dose is probably what everyone is using for rabbits, too. The product is not officially approved for use in rabbits, though many vets use it "off label" (don't worry; it's entirely legal).

This is a real stumper.  Prednisone or dexamethasone might help, but it will only be treating the symptom, and might not address the underlying problem.  It might break the cycle of inflammation, but no guarantees.

At this point it might be useful for you to join EtherBun:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/etherbun.html

It's a free listserve about rabbit health, care and behavior with over 2600 subscribers.  Although new subscribers are moderated until they send an on-topic post (we were getting a lot of porno spam!), you should be able to contact many other bunny people very easily, and I'll bet someone out there has had a similar experience, and may have some tips.  I wish I had more ideas, but it sounds as if you and your vet have covered everything I would have suggested already!  :(

The locations of the fur loss don't sound consistent with molar problems, so we're back to square one.

Please let me know if anyone on EtherBun is able to help.  There are vets, seasoned rabbit experts and lots of great bunny folk on the list, and if anyone can help, I'll bet they can.

Please write back if you think I can offer any more help.

Dana
Answer -
Hi again, Michelle

I'm not a big fan of Pet Medicine Chest.  A lot of the information at their site re: common rabbit ailments is just plain *wrong*, and none of their supplements has been demonstrated effective in a controlled study.

But at this point, if it's not too expensive, you could give it a try.  Another possibility would be to contact a holistic vet and see if they can suggest herbal remedies, or even *acupuncture* or other non-traditional therapies for this.  It might be worth a shot, since everything else you've tried hasn't worked.  :(

Dana
Answer -
Dear Michelle,

Meclizine is safe for rabbits, and is a pretty good anti-inflammatory drug.  If it's helping, then that's great news!

I know some people have used Benadryl for inflammations and nasal congestion in rabbits, and it, too, appears to be safe.  You might want to check:

www.medirabbit.org

for more information on these things.  The following link:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Skin_diseases_main.htm

should be especially helpful.  I hope so!

Dana


Answer
Dear Michelle,

It is possible that the meclizine is causing this excessive drinking, since some antihistamines really do dry up the mucous membranes.  However, excessive drinking and excessive urination also can be a sign of renal disease.  Your vet will need to draw blood to check her B.U.N., creatinine, and other values to see whether this is happening.

The stress of this illness is probably causing her GI tract to slow down, resulting in cecal dysbiosis and gas.  Please read the following:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

and

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

to learn more about this important side effect of illness in bunnies, and how to control it.


Hope this helps.
Dana