very thin ratty

Question
QUESTION: I have a PEW who is on antibiotics for an ear infection, as well as an NSAID. She seems to be eating dry food only, and is constantly in the dish. She is sooooo thin. She has also had a run with mites as well. (This girl was snake food and I rescued her 6 mos ago) She is good natured, but has a bit of bad luck. Could she have worms or is this a product of her situation?

ANSWER: Hi Mary

How old is she and about how much do you think she weighs? She probably was weighed recently at the vets (as per the ear infection) What type of food is she eating?
Does she have loose stools?

Please let me know in a follow up so I can further advise.
Also KUDOS to you for rescuing her. I love PEWS for starters and love when a rattie gets a second chance at life with a good home!

Regards

Sandra

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I guess her age is approx. 18 mos old as she was full grown when I got. She had a companion who looked like my babies at the time (6 mos old). She looked much older. Her weight is 8 oz. She has gained a little weight, (she was 6 oz 2 wks ago). She has dry food available 24/7. This consists of a rat mix with Cheerios, Kix, Shredded Wheat mixed into it. In the a.m. they (we have 10) receive a salad mixture (consisting of spring mix and romaine lettuce)w/a cut-up fruit and in the evening they receive salad mixture w/a cut-up veggie.They receive tuna, egg or fish for protein 2x a week. They receive a dark chocolate M&M 1x a week for fun or when they get their toenails clipped. She does like the grapes and apples, as well as carrots. She has only ate a few of these. She seems to "live" in the crunchy bowl. She is not dehydrated, as her skin snaps back like Penelope's (her companion from the pet store). They rely on each other GREATLY,therefore I have left them together.She does have loose stool, and her eyes are clear, but slanted. She is usually big eyed. Her hands and feet are colder than they used to be, as she likes to curl up w/me for the warmth. She is alert to her name, Ruby. She is still moving in circles, though not as frequent. She is not falling down as much either. She has approx. 3 more wks of medication for ear infection. I hope this is enough. Thanks for your help. She has had such a bad life, I just want her better and back to nipping me when she's playing.

Mary

ANSWER: Hi Mary

My math probably is off a tad but sounds like your little girl weighs about a half of a pound or a tad less.
 
If she is a petite rat she is in within normal range for a female rat, of course, I have not seen her in person so I cant say if she is within range as far as frame size  goes. Can you see her rib cage and spine? Can it easily be felt?
I have had bucks weigh 3lbs and they were NOT squishy fatties, they were solid muscle, and other rats that were tiny females, my Charlotte, who was always about 188 grams her entire life and lived 3 months past her 3rd birthday.
She ate day in and day out and never gained an ounce but she was always healthy. It really does vary from rat to rat, almost like it does for people.  The fact she is gaining weight and not losing it is a good sign though. I would of continue what you are doing as far as diet goes but of course watch the protein since rats should not exceed 15 percent protein in their daily diet. Some experts even say 10 percent while others say no more than 18 percent so we stay right smack in the middle and say 15 percent. ;-)
I prefer a good rodent block such as those made by harlan teklad but not all rats appreciate them. Some devour them, others bury them in the litter in the corner of the cage never to be seen or heard from again.

I notice you mentioned she was moving in circles in your follow up post. I know she was being treated for ear infection. What other signs does she have that led the vet to believe that it was an ear infection aside from walking in circles? Does she have head tilt? Discharge or odor from her ears?  You said her eyes normally are big and you notice they are slanted, which is indicative of several things, with one being photosensitive.  Sometimes when the light bothers rats when they are feeling unwell, their eyes take on more of a slant or slit like appearance. This helps them filter the light so it doesn't bother them .

How is she as far as holding food and feeding herself? Any loss of coordination at all?

As for the weight loss, if she is losing weight, I would be a bit more concerned, but if she is gaining weight, thats a plus.  You can always scoop up a fresh sample of her stool and  bring it in for the vet to look under the microscope to see if there are any endoparasites just to rule that out.
It seems you have  a grip on it and have it under control and are   taking very good care of her.  I am hoping she improves with her ear infection soon. You also said she is on an NSAID.  Is it metacam?  I suggest steroids in some cases and metacam in others since metacam doesn't have an impact on the immune system and doesn't cause it to be suppressed like steroids do although metacam is not as strong as steroids would be. I only suggest steroids in extreme cases such as head tilt and NSAIDS in most others. Its just the safer way to go, as it appears your vet already knows this too :-)
Also, what is she on for antibiotics? Baytril and doxycycline? Sounds like she is on the proper length of time  also which is 21  to 30 days to prevent relapse.          

Please keep me updated in a follow up.

regards

Sandra

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello again,

Ruby is what I would call a medium built ratty. She was small from her head to mid section and a nice large, round butt:) Now she is literally a bag of bones. Yes you can see her spine and ribs.

Ruby also has had head tilt. though she is not as far over as she was. She is actually keeping her head straight nowadays, most of the time. Her coordination was off to the point where I took her out of her home and placed her in a box. I was afraid she would hit the bars or shelves and hurt herself. She was falling over at all times and was unable to hold food. I would hold it for her (and yes be bitten), but she would eat it. She is a stubborn ole gal. She wanted to hold it, so I would prop her up with my hand and she would eat it. She is really a strong ratty.

Her antibiotic is doxycycline 3x a day and a divided ibuprofen 2x a day. She is actually allowing me to put these in her mouth w/o biting me and actually will take thme from me now and chew them up. She is a very smart rat. I think she is "street wise" and knows a good thing when she sees it. She has always had a humorous side to her even though my kids say she is very serious. So much so they won't touch her.

I will scoop up a stool sample and take it down to the vet's office to make double sure she is not infected with something else. I do hope her troubles run in 3's as this would be #4 for her. She has really has been a trooper with all this going on. She fell asleep on my lap this morning while I was working on the computer. She has NEVER done this before. So she does know I am trying to help her.

Thanks again for all you have done for us. I will let you know how she is doing.

Mary

Answer
Hi Mary

Is she holding food now?  

How long has she been on the meds.....a week?  How long has she been sick?

This sounds so much like classic pituitary adenoma, especially if she cant hold her food.  Do her front paws seem weak and unable to grasp food?
Weight loss despite the fact they are eating is also part of the symptoms of a pituitary tumor.  Spinning, walking in circles, loss of balance and coordination and head tilt are also included in the symptoms of PTs so the only way to rule it out is to use the proper antibiotic which are baytril and doxycycline. Mycoplasmosis is more than likely the bacteria causing the ear infection if she indeed has one and the only antibiotics that can destroy mycoplasma is baytril or zithromax and very few others. Myco is an organism with no cell wall which is usually the way antibiotics work (by attacking the cell wall) Baytril along with doxycycline together are the choice drugs when fighting bacteria that lacks a cell wall. Doxycycline or any drug from that family alone can attack myco but it is harder to kill. Again, the combination of the two drugs used simultaneously is the choice drugs to use.  Usually the way to rule out a PT is to medicate the rat and treat her like it was otitis media and if after drugs fail and the rats symptoms progress, its usually ruled as a PT.  

I hope this isn't the case and again I am not saying that she doesn't have an ear infection and has a pituitary tumor instead, but a red flag went up when you had said she couldn't hold her food and you had to feed her etc...
Unfortunately, intact female rats are prone to PTs after menopause (usually around 18 months and older) because the excessive amounts of estrogen produced at menopause can contribute  to the development of both mammary tumors and also pituitary tumors. I say to myself that I have seen so much of both in intact older females that I will never own another female   rat unless she is spayed. Right now I have males, who, although not immune from mammary tumors, are less likely to develop them but unfortunately I have seen a few cases (one of my own males too) develop them. Usually with males though, once it is removed they usually don't grow another one, but females have a chance of growing new ones as soon as a few weeks after removal of the first.

Our poor rats.....they have so many problems and we try so hard to get ahead of the game...its just tough to figure it all out sometimes.