Bucking The Leash

Question
Hi again Charlotte.  Yes, I must admit I have had these dogs from 8wk pups.  I can guarantee; however; that nothing traumatic occured with the leash to my dogs.  If anything, it has to be that they are frightened of it because of the corraling capabilities that come with the leash.  I think you hit the nail on the head though.  Neither one of these two wear collars.  And come to think of it, my Pap really doesn't like the collar very much because his long coat would frequently get tangled in it. It was a flat nylon type.  Perhaps a round leather collar would be in order for him.  Please believe me, if anything has happened to make these two dogs harder to train, it is because I am so lenient with them and sort of let them run the show.  I suppose they may be resemble a spoiled rotten child.  There ARE rules that they follow but very few.  They have a doggy door so they come in and out as they please.  Of course, I share my bed with them and love the loyalty they exhibit when they follow me from room to room.  I can never resist when I am in bed and one of them brings me a toy in his mouth.  They are just so darned cute and they know it.

After writing you the email this afternoon, I decided to put the collar on my Pap, "Snickers".  After about 30 minutes, the scratching stopped and he seemed more at east with it on.  Then I clipped on the leash.  He immediately layed down at my feet then rolled over submissively.  I praised him and loved him and coaxed him to stand with a treat.  I even got a step or two out of him but he had to be bribed with his treats.  

Your idea of a REALLY short leash is great.  After today's session, I think he can be trained fairly fast if I use your suggestions.  I am going to train him first.  Then I will start training the bigger one. I may have to consult with you when I start with her.  

I went to the web site that you sent a link to.  It sounds so fascinating.  I worked for a clinic of vets right out of high school back in 1975-1979.  I absolutely loved it.  I always wanted to be a vet but didn't want to be in school for so long.  Now, I am a registered nurse.  

I hope we can keep in touch and I hope you don't mind if I send you progress reports.  It is always nice to correspond with a fellow dog lover.

Thanks again and please write back if you have the time.

Donna



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Followup To
Question -
How does one introduce the leash to an adult dog that bucks it or becomes overly submissive?  I certainly don't want to scare him more by insisting that he behave by forcing him.  If you could give me a few ideas I could possibly choose a method that fits his personality.  The idea of letting him become familiar with it by leaving it on him for a few minutes hasn't worked and he seems mortified if I bring it out.  He is a Papillon, so he is a small dog and he is a month shy of being 2 years old. He really needs to walk on a leash without acting like he is having a neurotic attack.  

Then I have another dog that is doing the same thing and she basically gives up if the leash is on her, i.e. lays down, and/or bucks.  She is not as submissive as the other one and weighs around 45 pounds.  She is a some sort of wire-haired mix and has some manners and intelligence with a real eagerness to please.

I appreciate any helpful ideas or methods you can provide to me.  I am such a dog lover and I have trained all of my dogs I have ever owned, but I haven't had to try to train one that flat won't walk with a leash.  In fact,  I have trained all of my dogs basic obedience and loads of tricks....until now.  Help!
Answer -
Hello donna;
Please tell me you haven't had these dogs since they were puppies. that would make it so easy. Someone, sometime made then afraid by being cruel or stupid with the leash. Like using the end of the leash to hit the dog if it didn't do it just right, or putting on the leash, and jerking on it, when the dog had only had it on for a few seconds.Or letting a child put the leash on and drag the dog around.
With the obvious out of the way, hmmmmm.
Just when we think we are getting really good at raising animals or children, along comes one that defies everything we know to work.
Leaving the leash on for a few seconds is not long enough.I start by putting on a collar.When they are used to the collar, I put a very short leash (not longer than a foot or two)on them, and let them get used to dragging it around.
Know what might work for you at this point?
Using the leash as a toy.
If they have ever been spanked with a leash or strap of any kind, they are probably asociating that with a leash.
Try picking up the dog, and getting a leash, and like it is just a natural thing, drape the leash over your shoulder. Carry the dog around, talking to it, cooing to it.If the dog can smell it, but you don't try to put it on him/her at first. Jut like it is part of your dress etc.
This may have to be done over quite a time. It could even take weeks of doing this for awhile every day.But I would think just a few times will make a big difference.
For some reason, they associate the leash with punishment, or something to be afraid of.
Consider buying the Tellington-Touch method of animal massage video.
You can calm an animal down and cure it of fear of thunderstorms (I have done this with severl dogs)and a host of things.. It will come in handy for you anyway, when these little critters get old, and Arthritis bothers them.
You can correct aggressiveness, excessive barking, and a ton of problems, with just a simple massage for 10 or 15 minutes, when the problem needs to be addressed.
The calming massage is soooo easy to learn. In fact, they are all easy to learn, you just need to learn the proper way to do it. It is not the same as massaging a human. Their muscles and bones, nerves etc. are not in the same place as ours.
Go to this address, and read about the videos.You can order them from there. You can get the books, but the video is better, because you can see, where and how much pressure etc.
If you love animals, and are perchance looking for a leucrative career or sideline, this is a good business to be in. They have training classes to get your certification, and there are really good possibilities for clients.
The ranchers around here ( and other places) who have high dollar breeding bulls and/or race horses, pay a certified massage therapist big bucks to come to their ranch, once a month and massage their animals.
It is no more work (sometimes less)to massage a horse than to massage a football player, but it pays more.If I were not so stove up with Arthritis, I would go to one of her schools and get my certification.
I can do the massages, but I can't do it and get paid, because I am not certified.
There are tapes for dogs, cats, horses, all kinds of animals, and they are great!

www.lindatellington-jones.com

Maybe leave the leash out, where they can get used to seeing it.
It is probably the noise the leash makes, and the smell. It is not loud enough to notice, but it is an unfamiliar scent, sound and sillouette, to the dogs.
Back in 63, they found it was the hats the mailmen wore, and the leather straps on their bags, that caused so many dog bites.
Dogs see a silhouette, before you are close enough for them to smell, and that silhouette with the Military style hat was so unfamiliar to dogs.Different from other people. The leather straps, slapping against the bags as they walked was a very threatening sound to dogs. that sound was challenging dogs .
So, they switched to pith helmets, took the straps off the bags, and dog bites took a nose dive.
It HAS to be fear for some reason,associated with those leashes.
If you got them when they were a little older, than someone else did it, and it is just a matter of patience helping them get over it. If you have had them all tjeir lives, and that fear reason is not possible, then it is in the personality, and going to be harder to help them over it.
Please let me know how this comes along. I am very concerned for them.
Do consider getting that video. I have had mine for about 9 years, and the things I have used that massage for, that would have been so much harder to help with, are wonderful. When my Setter gets stiffened up, She comes to me and asks for a massage. They help her move so much better, and hurt less without meds, so then when she takes trhe meds, she can even scamper around with the other dogs some.
You can speed up the healing after surgery by at least 3 times what it would take otherwise.
Good luck, and please write back if you think I can help more.
Charlotte

Answer
I could tell by your first letter that yiu were not a person who would EVER intentionally harm an animal.
When one of mine was a bitty one, I was working another dog on a leash, and decided since I had more time, I would just take little Bud for a walk. He had never been on a leash before, and was only a couple of months old. I don't know where my mind was, because I put the leash o him, said "Heel" and gave it a slight tug. I scared the dickens out of that baby, and it took me months to get him to go on a leash without bolting. I felt awful about it.
Sometimes even the most loving moms can be dopes.
bud was short for rosebud.
He was one of a liter of a little mixed breed we took in. My son wanted to keep the mom, and when the litter was born, my grand-daughter who was 8 years old, picked a little female, and I made eye contact on this little male. We fell in love.He was black and white, and the tip of his tail was white. t his rear end, it was black, and was surrounded by a black spot in the shape of flowers kindergarten kids draw. My husband kidded me about not letting me have the dog. I told him I had to keep him, after all, not everybody had a flower on his butt, so my husband named him rosebud. The puppies were 6 wks old christmas eve. we had been telling out grand-daughter she couldn't keep the puppy. After she opened all her presents, my husband told her he didn't get one of her presents wrapped, so she had to close her eyes and hold out her hands. He put that pup in her hands, and she didn't touch any of her other presents for a week.she names her rosie. So we had mom and brother and sister.
I always had my animals spayed and neutered, and didn't realize how young a gemale could come into season. Needless to say, brother and sister mated. they had a little boy and a little girl. we found a really good home for the little girl, and kept the little boy. That was such an experience! We had a doting grandmother, an over-indulgent mother and father, and their little shin kicking brat. It was like hovering above and watching a little family. Granny even bit that little brat's fleas for him.LOL
They catered to him, and he was so cute.The grnadmother was supposed to be half beagle and half rat terrier, but when she grew up, she had prettier feathering than my high dollar Iruish Setter. Rosie looked like pure rat terrier. she was short haired, black and white. Rosebud had his dad's short legs and wire hair. Little britches (named him that because he thought he was so big and tough. too big for his britches)had his grandpa's short legs, the black and white markings, and his grandmother's long, curly, silky hair, and her beautiful eyes. He was my teddy bear.
They should have lived to be around 10 to 12 years old, if they were healthy, and Kissy(grandma)rosebud and Rosie all lived to be 14+ years old, Little Britches lived 15-1/2 years.He was blind for the last couple of years, and I was his seeing eye dog.
I have always slept with my animals. when I was a kid, I never had to have a beddy boo, or blankie. I slept with a real live one. I never had monsters in the closet either, nor did any of my children. A live animal in your bed, gives you more peace and security.
My husband and I have to have separate beds now. He has to have a firm mattress, and I have to have my waterbed. We had qween sized beds, so he has trhe room with the firm one, i have the water bed, and our 4 dogs we have now and our cat, take turns sleeping on our beds.
We have an Englis setter we bought when she was 8 wks old, an australian shepherd mix that I took in to rescue at 8 months. He was just too sweet with children, and too watchful of them. Had to keep him. He was just too much dog to part with. when he was 1 year old, our son and daughter-in-paw brought us a little Lhasa mix they took out of an abusive house. kids were throwing him around, and my son said he just couldn't walk off and leave that puppy there. They couldn't take him to their apartment, so they asked if I could find a home for him. I said, "Yes, I think I have" and took him. He was about 6 wks or so, and that was the cutest puppt you ever saw.Never intended for a minute to take him to adoption clinic. silky, the setter was going to mother him, but Rowdy, the Australian Shep took him over, and treated him like he was it's mother. We named him Maximillian, after the conqueror of Mexico, call him max. We call Rowdy, Max's step dad. He still caters to that little punk, and Rowdy is pushing 7, and Max is pushing 6.
Laddie is a gorgeous Sheltie that a fellow that works with my husband said he was "Just tired of having pets, so would i take him to the adoption clinic" Bronc brought him home, but we both liked him, so he is permanent. He was 1-1/2 years old, and we have had him for almost 2 years now. My sister died last December(christmas eve) and I brought her kitten she loved so much, home with me. She loves the dogs and they love her.
I would love to hear from you, but not on this board. too hard to write back and forth. If you would like, you could email me at
charlotte34@earthlink.net
I don't give out my email address, but I did once before, and she turned out to be one of the best web friends I have made.I got vibes this is another time I need to give out my email.You are my kind of dog person.LOL.
When I was an expert in askme.com, she wrote telling us she hsd lost the second of her 2 German shepherds. she had lost the other one several months before, and her husband the year before, and she was just lost. Her family encouraged her to get another dog, but she was torn. She had the usual,"would I be unfaithful to my other dogs, feelings"
I encouraged her to foster. That way she would have the companionship of dogs, but not have to commit until she was ready.
Well, she did, and we started corresponding. In just a few months, she had decided to keep one of the dogs she was fostering, and she started working more and more with the group. they put her in charge of adoptions. She is very close to 80, and she tells me she feels so much more alive now. She has purposeful work, she has kept a second dog now, and they are her constant companions. She says she is 20 years younger now. I am so pleased, for she is a truly lovely lady.
I just figured you for a mommy that would spoil her dogs. Course,I would NEVER spoil an animal. Just because I make carob cookies for them (cause they can't have chocolate), and sometimes make chicken stew for them. I wrap their Cbristmas presents, talk baby talk to them,and made them all a bed of their own, and made fake fur covers for the mattresses. They have collar and leash sets. when they get too groddy, we buy new collar and leash stes. We go to Petsmart, clothes shopping. they each have a nice warm coat, but it is so mild here, they hang in the closet.LOL.
Do write me, and I would love to se pics of your babies. I got a pic recently of Donna(yep, that's my friend's name too)and Bobby and Molly. It was really a shocker. she was sitting in a chair, exactly like the 2 I had in my living room, and gave to my daughter just before christmas.a red velvet swivel rocker. The shade on the lamp by her chair, is exactly like the shade on a lamp I made for my living room, and the lamp is quite like the one beside my bed.
DO DO DO DO.Twilight zone.LOL
Write as soon as you can. i will look forward to hearing from you.
charlotte