Schnauzer puppy & Schnauzer adolescent

Question
QUESTION: I know this is long, but want to provide you with all the info. possible.  I have read many, many things on the net about this, and lots of the opinions conflict with each other.  I think you will have the best perspective since you raise Mini Schnauzers.

I have had my 16 mo. old Mini Schnauzer since he was 12 weeks old.  He was neutered at six months old.  He is completely submissive to my family and has a wonderful personality and demeanor.  He loves everyone he meets.

He longs for doggie play and does play with one other Schnauzer in the neighborhood.  He tries to play with another Schnauzer, but is usually to over zealous.  He is so excited to have a dog to play with, that he scares her off.  He is very friendly, but plays a bit rough (jumping, wrestling, etc.)  It turns some dogs away.

Since he longs to play with another dog, and he has been such a breeze to raise and joy to be with, we decided we would get another Schnauzer.  I had read a while back that you should wait a year until you get the first one trained.  Ours is very well behavedk, we take him almost everywhere.  He knows some basic obedience commands.  

We got 12 week old black & silver pup last weekend.  At first, the pup was a bit over confident with our dog, jumping and nipping at him.  Our dog being very young himself played right into this.  He chases the pup, wrestles, rolls and tumbles.  It is making me nervous.  I am not sure if he knows where to stop.  He seems to be mouthing rather than biting the pup, but it is sometimes on the pups neck.  I am afraid he could bite down one time and do some mortal damage.  Occasionally we hear a yip from one of them or one of them hits their head on the wall when tumbling together, but nothing horrible yet.  We stop the play at this point by picking one up and holding him, alternating between removing the pup and the other dog.  I am sure to be in the room whenever they are playing. So far, I have let them go for about 10 minutes at a time and then pick one up and have him sit on my lap for a while. When my dog quiet, the pup runs right back to him trying to get it started again, when the pup quits, the 16 mo. old starts it all over again. When they are tired, they are very calm to each other.  They pup will lay down next to my dog and sleep.  My dog will even let the pup get into his bed without snarling at him.  The pup wants to be wherever my other dog is.

My questions are:  would a 16 mo. old dog instinctively know how to play without hurting the puppy?  Should I worry about this?  How long should I let these wrestling matches go on before I separate them?  Should I reprimand my dog when I think it is getting too rough?  The puppy was a singleton so he had no littermates to teach him when to stop or how hard to bite.  He bites very hard when playing, I can tell my other dog is getting annoyed, then I remove one and say NO MORE.  Should I be interfering or just letting them go?  Thanks so much for any advice you can give.  I want them to be happy friends for the next 15 years.  Jana King

ANSWER: Since the puppy had no littermates to help teach him bite inhibition, your older dog will do that. It sounds like he knows what he is doing. If the puppy bites him too hard, he will tell him off... just as he should. He will sound ferocious, and the puppy might squeal, but chances are there won't be a single mark on the puppy. That is how young puppies are disciplined in a pack.

When two young dogs get going, you will think they are killing each other because of all the noise and the activity level. Just let them have at it. Don't worry about the mouthing. What they are doing is "play-fighting"... practicing their fighting skills out on each other. Dogs don't really have a whole lot of ways to play together, so this one works very well for them, as it hones their fighting skills which they would need if they were in the wild, settles any dominance issues, and works off all that extra energy which might be expended in more destructive ways around the house... and they are having fun at the same time. If it gets too wild, just throw the two of them outside where they can really get to running. On nice days here, my youngsters are outside for a few hours every morning. Those kids have "buns of steel" from all the exercise. :)

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Karen, Thank you for getting back to me last week.  I have been letting the 16 mo. old and the now 14 week old puppy go in their play, while keeping an eye on them.  The puppy  at 7 lbs seems outmatched by my 19 lb Schnauzer, but still no injuries.  Do dogs have an instinct on how much is too much with a puppy?  He has only been around one other pup.  It was 8 weeks old and calm.  My dog seemed to mother it, but they were only together a couple of hours.  With the size difference it seems my dog could hurt the pup accidental???  The pup seems to bite him, but still he doesn't seem to clamp down on the pup, just the mouthing.  

We live in a deed restricted neighborhood that doesn't allow fencing, so they can't go out and run freely. Our house is fairly large, so they do chase each other around here.  When they get going at full speed, it's a little un nerving.  My dog seems to pounce on the pup when he catches him, still I don't see any injuries.  Both dogs are walked each day for exercise, the pup about 1/2 mile and the 16 mo. about a mile.  In addition, they go out several times to potty.  That may not be enough, they still have lots of energy left for each other.  

I crate the puppy at night, and when I go somewhere that doesn't allow dogs (grocery etc.)  Should I have them out in the house together all the time that I'm at home or should they be separated some of the time?  Is the pup learning any poor behavior from all this play fighting and wrestling?  My dog is one I can and do take almost everywhere.  He loves everyone he meets.  His only behavior flaw has always been over excitement with other dogs.  I think he is so happy to have someone to play with that he over does it and sometimes scares the other dog off, but it's never mean spirited.  

I thought by getting another Schnauzer for him to play with, he would calm down around other dogs since it would no longer be such a rarity to see another dog. These guys do like each other.  The pup initiates the play a lot of the time and always wants to be where my dog is.  When they are tired, they will lay together.  My dog even lets the pup put his head over on him.  I know breeders have many Schnauzers at their home.  Do they all get along together?  I really put thought and research into the decision to get this pup.  Is adding another Schnauzer ever a bad idea? Should I have waited until my 16 mo. was older?  I asked my breeder in the beginning and she said just let them settle it, that was all.  It does worry me though because the size difference is so big (12 lbs).

The pup bites at the family sometimes, more of a chew than bite.  We are working with him and the Yip response.  It works but sometimes he goes right back to chewing our fingers.  I do the Yip again and put him down.  Is playing with my dog adding to this bite behavior?

Thank you for your help.  I know you are busy! If I can just get through this phase, I'll be fine with them.  I know Schnauzers are very easy to train.  My little boy has been a dream.  We are starting 12 wks. of classes w/the pup this week.
Jana

Answer
Yes, of course, there is always a chance that the puppy could be hurt accidentally, but adults seem to know pretty much how much is enough.

The older dog could walk a bit further than a mile now, but the puppy should still be restricted for several months.

Yes, I think they should be separated at times. Each should be treated as individuals.... not as a pair.

Not all dogs get along together, and not all adults do well with puppies. Your two sound perfect for each other. Yes, adding a second schnauzer can be a bad idea, but it really depends on the individuals in question, and sometimes their ages. Some people get the second one too soon, and then others wait too long (like when the first dog is geriatric).

>>The pup bites at the family sometimes, more of a chew than bite.  We are working with him and the Yip response.  It works but sometimes he goes right back to chewing our fingers.  I do the Yip again and put him down.  Is playing with my dog adding to this bite behavior?

No, playing with him is not aggravating this behavior (unless someone is playing tug-of-war with him). What you are not doing is correcting this puppy in a firm and speedy fashion so that he understands that he is biting too hard... and actually shouldn't be biting at all.

What I do here for biting/mouthing puppies is to pinch their lip HARD, while staring them in the eye and roaring in their face much like a lion as I then tell the puppy, "NO BITING!". I immediately release the lip after the quick pinch, but leave my hand in place so that puppy can try for a second correction or can apologize by licking my hand (at which point I praise quietly). If he bites again, I escalate my correction by holding him up by the scruff of the neck and give him an unpleasant "talking to".