swollen tiger barb

Question
QUESTION: hi christy, i have a tiger barb that is one of a pair and its hanging out behind a plant on the bottom when everyone else is eating and can also swim around at other times seemingly fine. but he has swollen up, from the bottom, over night and isn't chaseing around with the other one.

the tank is one that i have because a friend had lost a labour of love with it, it is 36"x12"x14" set up with one t8 light and has a couple of plants. when we transfered it we kept 50% of the water to ease them in. the water temp is 76.5 f (wonder if this is too cold but more worried about changing it). i change (hoover) the water every week however i have been testing it a lot and if the ammonia, nitrate or nitrite are too high then they will get 2-3 changes (every other day till better.)we got them about 6 weeks ago and i have been trying to do nothing (no adjusters) to help them... just plants and water changes except some "rowaphos" po4 and si02 absorber granuals (i blame it for the ph hike to 8) thats in a "tea bag" in my filter as recently i discovered a phospate test kit that says not only is my tank way too high but my tap water is too even after aquasafe. i have been testing the levels since i got them tho i know not alot i have been reading alot from he internet and my local shop. the levels are:
general hardness=13 (started at 15)
KH carbon hardness=8
ph=8 (started at 7.5)
no2= <0.3mg/l
co2= calculated time before last = 6mg/l (started at 15mg/l)
no3= 25mg/l
po4= 0.5mg/l or under

please help as they are the life and soul of the tank and i'm rather worried about the speed of is swelling.
yours Jago


ANSWER: Hi Jago
Ok, the tank dimensions you gave me are in inches correct?  If so, your tank is about 26 US gallons/99 litres.  The temperature is fine, they can handle from about 74-80 F ok.
 
The tank's been set up for about 6 weeks, so it's probably finishing up on the cycle process, are you familiar with that?  Here's a link to look over, has an article that explains a tank cycling:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/startupcycle/Step_5_The_Cycle.htm

That's good not adding a bunch of chemicals and stuff.  Most don't work, just stick with your water changes that's the best way.  That's also good doing the frequent changes when the ammonia and nitrite(no2) rise, you want those to be reading 0 ppm, and you want your nitrates(no3) to stay under 20 ppm.  From what you posted, looks like your tank is almost done cycling.  

How many fish are in the tank, and what other kinds are in there?

How often do you feed the fish?

What is the si02 absorber granules?  I've never heard of that :)

Now for the phosphates...Aqua Safe is just a water dechlorinator-removes chlorine and chloramines from tap water.  It won't do anything to remove phosphates.  Phosphates aren't bad for fish, and I don't know what levels yours are at, but here's a link that explains them a bit further:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/watercare/a/phosphates.htm

Now, if your levels out of the tap water are that high, then you'll probably need to use something like spring water for your tank when you do the water changes.  Phosphates are also found in fish food-that's why I asked how often you were feeding the fish.  Usually high phosphates will cause an algae bloom in a tank.  

Now for the fish that's swollen.  It just happened overnight?  
Does it look like it's pineconing, like it's scales sticking out?  
And just the belly/abdomen is swollen, or does the whole fish look swollen?  
Is it eating?
It could be you have a female that's full of eggs.  Or, it could be an infection called dropsy.  Dropsy is usually brought on by poor water quality, like when a tank is cycling-like what yours is going though.  The ammonia and nitrite stress the fish, and can cause lots of problems, including dropsy.  Here's a site with some pictures to click on, it shows a female with eggs and what they'll look like:

http://aquarium.bluemoon.net/cgi-bin/showthumb.cgi?albinotiger05-01-01

I don't know how quick that would make them swell though, and I believe she would still be somewhat active though.  If it is dropsy, she'll take on a pine cone appearance, and honestly it's a really difficult infection to treat.  The best medication for that is an antibacterial food-which if you're in the UK or Europe(?), I don't believe you have access to that.

Get back to me when you can on some of those answers.

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hi christy
thanks for geting back to me. yes tank sizes are inches
the SIO2 i have no idea what it is but it is a combined phosphate and SIO2 absorbtion granules that my local (same water area)fish shop reccomended and dose calculated for me. i wouldn't of added it except the algea was growing on my plant leaves and seemingly killing it. Brand name is ROWAphos.
the other fish are somewhat unknown but i shall attempt to describe: 14 total. 2 tiger barbs. 2 silver "shark" (with red fin bits) about 4" body. schools of little (1+1/2") fish: 3x one sort with triangular black on 'body to tailarea' and 4x other sort with red top 'eyelid??' and triangle of yellow on bottom fin. plus two silver 3" fish one with mottled colours and tenticles that stick out the front and are used like hands (she?? likes to skim the surface a lot and the other with no tenticle (different fish) slightly more yellowy on underbelly and more silver on top. and one red (guppy??) that looks similar to golfish...ish.
i usually feed them once a day the amount that they seem to eat in 3-4 mins. cycleing nutrafin max flakes for tropical and tetramin flakes and frozen bloodworms (that they all like). however the phosphate levels out of the tap are the same so i dont think its the food particulary. good idea about the spring water.. i''l try to sort that. i was more worried about the aquasafe making it more phosphateY than thinking it would remove it. the phosphates are now below 0.5 from 5 ppm when i started and yes the algee was growing all over the plants which i thought took the micky as the plants were meant to be eating all phosphate i thought.
now the fish to my mind yes swelled up over night. today seems worse. yes active though but spends feeding time not eating hiding behind plants on bottom. definitely belly/ bum swollen  but there is not a o lot else that could swell apart from back and head. he /she  comes out to talk to me but then returns back to hiding place. DOES NOT EAT and isn't interested in eating. Ammonia is as far as my test kit is accurate under 0.5/0. NO3 was 12.5 but rose to 25 but will go down again with next change. NO2 is under 0.3 (closest my test kit will show
from reading your post i too think tank is almost finished cycling and was just thinking i was in the clear when he/she blew up like this. as far as i can tell there is no "pineconeing" to mention tho i am no expert. doesn't seem to have too many difficulties moving up/down when he wants too but unlike his usual behavior he doesn't do that hardly at all just sits on bottom behind plant. the picture of the pregnant fish seem quite similar but can they grow so fast (i have no clue as to fish reproduction) (overnight)!!?
as to last comment yes i am in the UK.
my gut feeling is something along the constipated lines as the tigars are very greedy normally but how do i feed just him peas?? my flatmate has and empty small tank if that is usefull and i have many spares (heaters filter etc)
thanks again
jago.

ANSWER: Hi Jago
Ok...I want to figure out what type of fish you have in there first, It's important to know.  If those sharks are the ones in the photo, you should probably think about getting rid of them, at the very least one of them.  Generally, sharks don't do well with 2 of them in a tank.  They get territorial with each other and sometimes the other fish.
The silver shark with red fins, is it this one:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1171

Fish with triangle on body:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1065

Red top eye, here's a few with that:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1580

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/581.htm

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=897

The one with "tentacles" or feelers is most likely a gourami, comes in different color and size varieties:
Here's a dwarf variety photo:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=974

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=973

The one that's yellow on the belly and silver on top, no idea what that is, need more info or a photo.  And the one you think may be a guppy...could be, did you mean goldfish or glofish?  Here's one that's similar also, it's a cherry barb:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1008

Hopefully that'll help you figure out what you got :)  If not, here's a couple links to look over photos:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?pcatid=830

http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/default.aspx?pnl=fresh

Sounds like you're doing everything right, just need to wait for it to finish cycling.  Feeding schedule is good, I have a bottle of Aqua Safe myself, read the ingredients didn't see phosphates mentioned on there.  Not sure though if it contains any, good question though.  Sorry, I thought you were trying to use it to remove the phosphates :)  I did look up that other stuff Rowaphos, pretty neat, I like the sponge idea.  If it's helping, then I'd keep using it.  I didn't realize they were that high in your tap.  Either keep using that, not sure how expensive it is or how long it lasts though, or go with spring water or even RO water.  But with RO(reverse osmosis) water, you need to mix it in with some tap water, or add the minerals back into the water before adding to your tank.  The RO process removes all the minerals out the fish need.

As for the fish that's not well, honestly I don't think they'd blow up that quick overnight.  If she was full of eggs, I would think it would be a gradual appearance, and she'd be eating.  

I would suggest if you can, move the fish to the other tank, and set  up the filter on it.  The filter will help aerate/add oxygen into the water.  But I would go ahead and change out 25% of the water every day in that tank then to keep the water quality good.  If it's something like dropsy/bloat, that was caused from the water quality, maybe the "better" water in the new tank will help the fish heal up.  Use some of the water from the old tank, and slowly adjust her to the new tank water.  I would also start feeding her peas too, in case it is constipation.  Though, if she's not interested in eating, that can be difficult.  Also, add some epsom salt to the new tank.  I would add a teaspoon for every 5 US gallons(sorry don't have the conversion on that).  Epsom salt is good for constipation, and for swelling it helps draw out the fluids and such causing the swelling.  Don't use regular aquarium salt, that'll have the opposite effect.  

And, it's ok for the other fish to eat peas as well.  I actually feed it to all my fish at least once sometimes twice a week.  Even my big mean red devil gets some.  It's good for all fish, helps clean them out, and just helps in varying up their diet.

Let me know how it goes with the tiger barb.  Let me know if you have more questions, and good luck!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hi christy, sorry didn't get back to you sooner but i'm a chef and the weekends are really long at work,
to give you an update, the tigar barb has continued to swell and i would say "pineconing" but i'n not sure. s/he is eating again but i can see a glint behind her scales whe she turns away fron me that can be seen on the other (however she is twice the width of the other) and her eyes may also be bulging (tho i may be paranoid as i am watching for this).
when you say move her into the other tank how would you do it? i would siphon off the top water into the other tank as part of a non gravel cleaning change (maybee take some gravel too?) set up the spare filter (but it will have no good bacteria!) or take the one from this tank (but that would screw up the other fishes wouldn't it?) put the heater in then wait for it to steady then transfer fish.
Is there any other things as well, that i could do to treat her or do you think epsom salts (where would i find them?) would do the trick?
i must confess that now i think she's very ill even tho she does seem more lively (tho still a lot of hangin out with bottom of plant) she seems to keep growimg/bulging and i'm really scared that i won't manage to treat her in time.
i have taken some photos but how can i send them to you?
sorry for my spelling it's a bit hap-hazard.
thanks, jago

Answer
Hi Jago
No apologies needed, I understand!  A lot of times I'll set myself up as on vacation on here on the weekends, just too busy with other stuff.

Pineconing, the fish's scales will look like they're standing or pushed out.  It's best viewed when you look down at the fish rather then from the side.  I had a good site that had photos, but it hasn't been working for awhile.  Keep an eye on the eyes, popeye is also a symptom of that.  But that's good that she's eating again.

To move her, I would do as you said, use some of the tank water.  Add some fresh water as well.  I would scoop her out with a net or a cup(net's probably easier) and put her in a large cup or bucket with some of her tank water.  Then slowly add the new tank water(because you'll mix it with fresh water)to her bucket so she can adjust in case the ph or temperature is off.  Turn the heater on to get the new tank close to the old tank temperature(you can also use warm water in the new tank).  Then add her to the new tank.  Put the spare filter on it, but don't worry about the gravel or anything with beneficial bacteria on it.  I would suggest doing either daily or every other day water changes on that tank.  If you end up using medicines, some can kill off the beneficial bacteria anyway.  But you can't use antibiotics....which is usually the one that will kill off the bacteria.  You could add some gravel to the spare filter if you want, but I think you'd probably be better off doing the frequent water changes on that tank, especially since that may have been the cause originally.  

Epsom salts....here in the US, they're usually found in the pharmacy section of the store.  People use it as a foot bath sometimes or in the regular bath to relax.  They're either by the medicine stuff, or by bath products-again that's here lol.  Try asking the pharmacist at the store-think that's what you guys call them, the people that distribute prescription medicine.  Also since she's eating, try giving her a pea to eat.  Just split it open and feed her the insides.  

You can send me photos at christiie911@yahoo.com and just put fish pictures or something in the subject so I know it's not spam.  
You're spelling is fine :)  I type so fast sometimes, I miss lots of spelling errors-and I have a spell check button I never use...they always pick up every unknown word or abbreviation, and I'm too impatient to sift through them all lol.

I'll look for your email, probably be tomorrow since it's late here.  

Christy