Had a loss...

Question
QUESTION: Hi Sandra,
I've recently been through a terrible situation that came to a sad end. I use to have two pet rats. Both females-- "Priscilla" and "Sweet pea"

Priscilla was older than sweet pea because I got them at different times. They were best buddies, they were so sweet. And all that good stuff.

Then recently Sweet pea came down with an illness one night (March 18th). She was listless and didn't want to come out to run around. She had a hunched posture, her fur was ruffled up, and her breathing was very fast. She had red discharge from her eyes and nose. I did as much research as I could on rat illnesses. The next day (march 19 Priscilla had a runny nose (with the red discharge) but she didn't act sick. Sweet pea just got worse and worse. I tried getting her to take infant vitamin drops. She did a little but she soon lost her appetite and would barely eat anything. Not but that next morning (march 20), she had died. (So devastating)

Now I do have a new rat I'm currently getting Priscilla use to. Priscilla seems healthy by the way and nothing at all like what Sweet pea was. Boy do I miss her so much.

My main question is I remember when I first got Sweet pea, she was kinda breathing fast at the petstore. But I didn't think much of it because she seemed fine otherwise, I thought maybe it was just because she was young and/or nervous. She was very little when I got her. She also made this little ticking noise that kept rhythm with her breath the first few days I had her. For a couple days when I had her she seemed a bit weak and I was worried. But she seemed to pull through and was so healthy and doing wonderful for so long. Until the past few days of what I just explained.

*Do you think she already had a Respiratory problem when I got her? What could she have caught so quick and lost her life to? I've thought of a Upper respiratory infection. I don't know though. I usually see rats at all the local petstores with red around their nose and eyes almost everytime. I just wonder why the rats are always unhealthy.

When I first got priscilla she had a terrible bout of sneezing and runny nose. That was back in 07 in december. Now she seems ok.

~But I guess I'm not really looking for a direct answer. Because I know this probably challenging to answer. But basically I'd like your comments and thoughts on this whole matter if you wouldn't mind. About sweet pea's condition, maybe prevention on the respiratory conditions, ect...

(*My new companion for Priscilla has a funny shaped head. Her head is shorter than most rats, giving her a really baby-like appearance. Ever encountered that before?)

Thank you for everything and being there to help people with their rats!
~Susan~

ANSWER: Hi Susan


I am so sorry about Sweet Pea! It is so devastating when they pass away and it takes our hearts a while to heal. I hope yours heals fast.

Sweet pea probably had pneumonia caused by strep, which usually kills within 48 hours or less if untreated.  Aggressive antibiotics and oxygen treatment which would include an over night stay at the vet so they rat can have medications nebulized is the only way to get over this type of  dangerous pneumonia. Its not easily passed to other rats unless the other rat exposed has a compromised immune system as it is.
What makes a rats immune system weak? Usually mycoplasmosis, which all rats are exposed to from birth. However, not all rats develop respiratory illness from myco if they have a strong immune system.
Myco causes more than respiratory infection, however. It is responsible for other ailments such as urinary tract infection, inner ear infection and infection of the uterus.  Prevention is key, which includes keeping the cage as free of urine build up as possible and of course, using a cage rather than an enclosed glass tank (there is no circulation which is unhealthy) Also, proper diet low in protein and fats which means no seed mixes from the pet stores (those are the worst diets to use) and last but not least, a good litter such as aspen or carefresh that are free of phenol oils. Pine and cedar have the dangerous phenol oils and they attack our rats delicate lungs and also can cause kidney disease and cancer. You probably are doing everything right, as most rat owners are, especially if your doing your homework on rat care which you stated above that you have been doing lots of reading etc...sometimes,you just unfortunately fall in love with a rat that has bad genes, which are usually the ones found in pet stores.  Breeders that take the time to trace the rats family history before breeding and KNOW what they are breeding and NOT breeding is the most ideal place to get a healthy rat, but many rat owners have no idea how to go about finding a reputable rat breeder!!

If your sure your rat had respiratory infection this time when she died, that is more than likely the culprit as i said before....but other things can cause the rat to have excessive porphyrin and become listlss....anywhere from cardiac related to kidney or liver problems sometimes even a blood clot to the brain can do it, but death is pretty sudden in those cases.

The red discharge you have been seeing is called "porphyrin" and it is produced by the harderian gland located behind the rats eyes. This discharge is to lubricate the rats third eyelid, but often when the rat is sick, the gland produces excessive amounts that drain from the sinuses, coming out the nose and eyes. A light colored rat may have pink traces of it on the fur from grooming, too. Many rat owners fear its blood but its not. You also said that when you first got Priscilla and she was sneezing etc...this is fairly normal with new rats since they get scared and nervous and their histamine levels climb causing sneezing. Once they adjust to their surroundings they get over it, but its normal to sneeze sometimes, its when they act sick, stop eating and have abnormal sounds like congestion etc....This is when a vet visit is necessary to recover.
What type of diet do they eat and bedding do they use?

You asked why pet store rats seem so sickly and here is why:
They are produced in astonishing numbers by breeder mills that dont care about their health or temperment one bit. They are sold usually as snake food and the pet store fishes out the more unique looking rats to sell as pet rats but they are still bred poorly.
The breeder of these feeder stock doesnt have the time to trace their roots and get to know the lines from father/mother back to great great grandparents. They dont care if they socialize them and make sure they are friendly and not skittish. Your supposed to handle rat pups the day or two after birth to get them used to human touch and if not, your basically lucky to buy ones that are not skittish and touchy. I give extensive instructions to rat owners on how to trust train skittish rats which never should be an issue if the breeder did her job right, but she doesnt.  Not that type of breeder. A hobby breeder is the one that will not breed if the line shows history of cancers that are uncommon or rats that are prone to biting etc...she usually tops breeding from that line which is why hobby breeders are the best place to buy healthy rats from. Its just heartbreaking no matter what and I hate the thought of feeder rats, period.  There is nothing natural about feeding live prey to a captive snake when normally the snake prefers to hunt...not to mention that if the snake doesnt strike right away the rat may attack and seriously hurt the snake. We see that alot but now the vet refuses to take on snakes as clients that the owner insists on live feeding. He educates the snake owner on how to feed pre killed frozen rather than risk the snakes life and of course the rat.

I did want to ask though if you have a vet for the girls? I can locate one for you so next time you need a vet there will be no mad dashing looking for someone to take the rats to see when   they get sick.
Exotic vets are the best bet since they have the proper medications and the knowledge on many ailments rats can get. I know so many people end up seeing general vets instead and they cant even get the proper medicines to the rat since they dont carry   it.
I just need your zip code and the names of the biggest cities surrounding your area so I can find a vet for you that will take good care of your rats in the future. All i need is your zip code and tell me the cities nearest to you and I can find a vet certified in exotics that can help your girls should they get sick again.

Hope this helps and please let me know the answers to the few things i asked earlier to help diagnose what may have happened to your sweet girl.



Sandra



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Sandra,
I honestly cannot thank you enough for all the wonderful info you provided. It can be so difficult to find good info about rats that actually makes sense. I feel bad about getting rats from petstores now. I hope to locate hobby breeder's in the future definitely.

Currently I have Carefresh bedding which I've had for quite a long time now. I use to have aspen but I switched to Carefresh all the time now. My rats eat a Seed mix made by Kaytee brand. I bet that's bad isn't it? you mentioned something about seed mixes being bad? I put a little of the seed mix in their bowls as well as a serving of the "lab" blocks which is also Kaytee brand I believe.
As much as possible I give them little bits of cereals, bread, crackers, fruit, and vegetables as treats. Now I'm supplementing Priscilla about once a day with a drop of the infant vitamins mixed with a little bit of peanut butter just to try to help keep her immune system up. I don't know what I'd do if I lost her to a sickness. :(

I do believe there is a vet that one of my petstore's recommended for the rats. It is an exotic vet that sees parrots and sometimes small exotic mammals.

My Zip-code is 76513 and the biggest local cities around my area are Dallas, Fort worth, Waco, Killeen, ect...

I really appreciate all you are doing to help -- me and my rats thank you with all our hearts!!


The new little rat is a joy. But I sure do miss Sweet pea. I wish she was still alive.. Miss her so much.

Happy easter and I hope you have a wonderful week!
~Susan~

Answer
Hi Susan

The problem with the Kaytee is the protein content in the lab blocks and the fat content in the seed mixes. What the rats end up doing with the seed mix is picking out their favorite pieces and leaving the rest to rot. SPeaking of rot, the hard kernel corn in these mixes? They have been found to contain toxic fungus and molds that are terrible for our rats. I never knew this myself when I first kept rats and in fact learned it from doing research while studying rodent behavior. It was pretty freaky to find that out and luckily the info has spread to many reputable rat care websites so the news traveled fast.

Anyhow, rats should steer clear of diets high in protein and fat. Protein levels should be less than 18 percent and ideally, 15 percent.

As for peanut butter, just a warning (they say ignorance is bliss, and that is the truth!) but I have seen rats choke to death while peanut butter has blocked their airway. What you can do is just water it down some and make it real thin instead of being thick.

Anyhow, another word of caution is vets that say they treat rats and have a "special interest" in exotics but are not exotic certified.
I can check the credentials of the vet you speak of before you make that appointment. The problem with these vets is they are not properly equipped to handle the smaller animals such as pocket pets etc...sometimes these vets dont carry the proper medication, such as baytril which is used alot for rats with respiratory infection. They carry the pills only, which are easier to use in dogs of course and tell us to cut them into quarters or halves and mash them up and try to give it to the rat which usually ends up a battle since it tastes terrible and the dose is not accurate. Instead, a vet that is ready to handle rats as clients will have all of the elixirs on hand with yummy flavoring such as strawberry or orange (rats LOVE orange flavoring!) and they mix it up, easy as pie. They also have properly sized instruments to use on the rat, including oxygen enclosures to keep small animals in case they need oxygen treatment. I think you get my drift.  The problem is, there are only about 130 of these vets available and sometimes you have to drive up to an hour to see them. That stinks if the rat is seriously ill and needs emergency treatment which is why its vital that rat owners educate themselves as much as possible so they are trained to pick up on the slightest abnormality and they can seek medical treatment before it even gets out of hand. We arent so lucky when they have something acute but with some ailments like the beginning signs of respiratory illnesses, if you get them treatment fast they wont end up gasping and having to endure a 45 minute ride that they may not survive.
You can check out my website for alot of information and ideas for diet other than seed mix etc...

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/allaboutratcare.htm

Here is all I can find on rat vets in your area...but again, I would like to check the credentials on the vet you know of. If you dont want to post the name openly you can make a new message and mark it PRIVATE so only you and I can see what is written.

Hope this helps!


Certified exotic vet in your area:

This vet is about 48 miles from your area code:
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Dr. Christina Morelli
Banfield Cedar Park #1835    
1335 East Whitestone Blvd
Cedar Park TX 78613
Phone:    512-528-0029
Website: www.morellivet.com
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