upper respiratory infection

Question
QUESTION: I purchased 2 baby rats (6-8 weeks old) from a pet store 2 days ago. The one, "Kate" seemed to be having trouble breathing. I can't hear weezing, but she does make a sound like she is popping bubbles. (Not the normal teeth chattering noise.)She also has a very spastic breathing pattern. Anyway, I took her back to the pet store and they said she had an upper respiratory infection. They gave me EXPIRED bird antibiotic pills to crush and put into her water. This did not seem right to me so I took her to the vet today. They put her on Doxy and Baytril for 7 days and also gave me teramycin for her eyes. My question now is this... she is very lethargic, not really eating or drinking (the vet did give her sub-q fluids) but how do I intice her to eat and drink? She weighs only 94 grams compared to her sister who tops in at 127 grams. I'm worried that she doesn't have much of a reserve to fight an illness. Also, how exactly do you convince a baby rat to take her medication? If you haven't figured it out already, I'm a first time "Mommy". BTW, I switched their bedding from pine shavings to cotton bedding. The pet store did not seem very knowlegable, so I am starting from scratch. I e-mailed another of the experts yesterday, and she was very helpful. She told me to give Kate dark chocolate and peeled oranges to make her more comfortable, but she is turning her cute little nose up at everything I've offered her. The only thing she has been at all interested in (besides sleeping) is a blueberry. She nibbled on that for a bit. I'm not sure if I should offer her more fruits. Can she get diarrhea and thus dehydrated? Sorry if I'm long winded. Trial by fire I guess LOL. Anyway, the more info you could provide, the better. Obviously, I need all the help I can get. Thank you.

ANSWER: Hi Rebecca

I just read what Janell told you (we are friend and she is my co-admin on my message board, the rats nest, which your welcome to join, btw)

I agree with what she told you but I have to disagree about the baytril.
Baby rats should really not be given baytril when they are under 4 months old. This can contribute to the developing cartiledge and can cause problems later in life. However, when the benefits outweigh the risks, dispensing baytril at this young age is warranted. SHe should be on zithromax and keflex or cefadrops for her age. However, the key here is that she improves.  If you do NOT see any change in her and she gets worse by the third day on the baytril and doxy, she needs to get on new medications fast.  Since your new to rats, you are probably unaware of the organism, mycoplasmosis, that all rats are born with and this can cause serious respiratory illness in rats, especially if poor husbandry is practiced, which I see if she was on pine, that is probably what triggered it in this baby rat.  The vet must and I cant stress MUST enough, be up to par in rat care when dealing with this bacteria or she may end up with pneumonia.  She should be kept on medication for no less than 21 days but we prefer at least a full 30 to prevent relapse. If not,she will get sick again and the second attack is usually worse than the first and it can become chronic.  Please refer to this link to read about myco and its causes and treatments.  

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/mycoplasmosispage.htm

It is vital you educate yourself as much as possible on rat ailments.  You will find that there are few vets that are really educated properly when treating rats and the more you know, the better off your rat will be. Your taking the first steps in the right direction by asking Janell and I about your little baby rats illness so I can tell your hungry for information. My entire website is dedicated to new rat owners. I made it back in 2004 and continue to keep current with it. When I first started with rats I could not find any good info on them and that is when I decided to make a website that I wish I had myself when I needed it!
The chocolate Janell suggested is to help open her airways. Dark chocolate, prefer bakers chocolate, contains theobromine which is a chemical that is used as a bronchodilator and helps to relax the muscles in the bronchi which helps aid in breathing and also widens the airways which will help too. Just a little bit is all she needs.

I prefer though, in this case that the vet prescribes are real bronchodilator such as albuterol for her. Is the vet you took her too a real exotic vet?  Keep in mind that some vets say they "see rats" and have a special interest in rats but in no way does this mean they are board certified.  However, the fact the vet gave her baytril and doxy shows the vet is aware of mycoplasma and how baytril or zithromax are the only few drugs that can fight the bacteria properly, but again, baytril is usually reserved for older rats.  
Also, she really needs to eat and drink.  Putting meds in her water could have really caused her to dehydrate.  If it tastes bad, the rat will not drink it and this will really cause the rat to dehydrate, which they can do rather fast due to their size.
You can coax her to get liquids by offering her koolaid (I worry more about dehydration than sugar content at this point) or fruit flavored pedialyte. To get her to take the medications, you can melt some vanilla or chocolate ice cream and put the medication in the ice cream.  DO NOT mix the two medications together.  Give them a few minutes apart. Doxycycline CAN be used with dairy products as can baytril.  You can even try yogurt.  Offer her baby food.  Rats that are in respiratory distress often do not like to chew. This interferes with breathing. They will lick and suck much easier than chew. Any strained baby foods are fine from carrots and peas to custards. If she wont lick it from a flat dish, try letting her lick your fingers.
Did the vet flavor her medications by chance?
You can also help her breathing by turning the shower on HOT and getting the bathroom steamy and going in there and holding her nice and close to you but she (and you!! LOL!) will breathe the steam in and this can help open her up too.
She really needs to be in oxygen if she is having trouble breathing. Are her sides sinking in when she breathes? Why did the vet give her
teramycin for her eyes?  This is vital to know because this will tell me if the vet you took her to is really educated in rat care or not. If you tell me she had red discharge from her eyes and he is giving you this medication for it...well, I wont go any further till I hear from you about it first.
Since I work directly with rats as a consultant I know how important the right vet is in order to care for a sick rat. I have seen too many people on here lose rats because of the wrong vet care and I want to avoid any more losses this month.  :(  

Anyhow, please let me know the few things I asked and also feel free to join our message board:

http://critterkeeper.proboards56.com/index.cgi

Hope to hear from you soon and hopefully I have helped some.

Sandy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sandy;
  The vet I took Kate to is one in a large practice of veterinarians. She is the "exotic pet" vet at the practice. Beyond that, I'm not sure how qualified she is. I have already been to several web sites, including your's and have obtained a quick education in Myco. My girl however doesn't appear to be displaying the same symptoms as those described. For example, she is not sneezing or weezing. She isn't really eating and I haven't seen her drink anything. She stays in her hide box and sleeps. She will perk up a little if I pick her up, but within a minute or two, she is asleep in the palm of my hand. Her sister on the other hand is playful and curious. Totally differant behaviors. I believe the vet gave Kate the eye meds because of a discharge, the pinkish crustys that I think are normal?? To answer your question, the doxy is raspberry flavored but the baytril is injectable to be taken orally. Anyway, Kate and I are going to have some chocolate and a shower. I always knew chocolate was a cure for everything LOL! Looking forward to your reply. Any information is helpful. Thanks again
Rebecca

Answer
Hi Rebecca

Your really doing a good job researching!  

Well your right, the pinkish crusty stuff is "normal" but "not normal" if you can understand that. LOL

It is called "porphyrin" and it is a mucus that is produced by a large gland located behind the rats eyes.  Normally porphyrin is produced to lubricate the rats third eyelid but when the rat is sick, the gland tends to produce excessive amounts for reasons totally unknown. Its almost like a blessing since seeing excessive amounts in our rats is our KEY that they are stressed due to not feeling well. Some rats produce normal amounts, usually found around the nostrils but when it involves the eyes and nose and its more than usual, thats your signal to head to the Vets. It is NOT from infection. I would spare the poor rat the trauma of eye medication.  I had a feeling that the vet thought it was infection which is what worried me. Now I know she is not as educated at she should be.  She probably knows a bit more than the other general vets on staff but I can almost guarantee that she did not extend her education to study exotic mammal medicine and did not take her speciality boards.  She would not be treating porphyrin discharge as infection if she did.

Your little girl more than likely has a secondary infection. As I stated in my info on myco, it usually doesnt seem to pop up in baby rats this young since it is a slow growing bacteria.

At this point, if she does not improve within the next 24 hours or gets worse, I would really consider looking up another vet, one that is a real exotic vet that is a member of the Association of Exotic Mammal Veternarians.  Most states have several and they do NOT cost anything more than a general vet.  The good news is they wont hand you nasty injectable baytril and expect you to straddle your rat and give it to her and think she is going to swallow it. They have special yummy syrups to add to it to make it decent for them from strawberry to banana flavored.
Anyhow, if you want names of exotic vets, all I need is your zip code or city and state and I can give you names. The choice of course is yours if you want to switch to another vet, but there are a few things you should be sure of with the vet you have now, such as if this little rat should need put in the hosptial should she have pneumonia which I am starting to suspect she does, do they have special climate controlled enclosures to pipe in oxygen and do they have a nebulizer that should be used to get antibiotics directly inhaled to her lungs?
Do they keep them over night in the hosptial? Many vets like that do not have anything like that to accomodate the little animals and this can be critical.  I would also ask about surgeries especially with mammary tumors since females are very prone to them after menopause kicks in and estrogen levels start to elevate unless of course the female is spayed at a young age. I keep forgetting to put a page on my site about the importance of finding the right vet and not a vet that just knows a little extra about rats than the others on staff and call themselves the vet that sees exotics.  Sometimes though people have no choice because the only exotic vet is 4 hours away which of course is just out of the question to drive that far, esp if it is an emergency. Some general vets are fantastic with rats and are able to meet many of their needs as I described above, but when a vet thinks porphyin is an infection, that tells me there is alot this vet does not know about rats and that worries me and makes me fearful for the rat that is being treated.
Please keep me posted on her condition.  She is just so tiny and fragile at this age and too young to have an infection like this. Being lethargic and having no interest in food is not a good thing to have and your right, it is not really typical myco. Myco itself is more benign, but a secondary infection can be brutal and this indeed could be pneumonia.  

If you need anything just write. I check back often.


Sandy