Sick rat, 2 vets no idea what is wrong

Question
QUESTION: Hello.  My rat Lucy just turned two years old.  I recently noticed that she wasn't using her front paws to grab food or treats anymore just laying her head near the food and chewing at it.  She also seemed a little low on energy and her balance wasn't the best.  A day or two later she had no energy, had lost significant weight and had excessive porphoryn around her eyes and nose.  I took her to a vet that saw rats. The vet said that he had no idea what was wrong and he wanted to run basically every rat test there is.  I didn't have the $375 on hand for that.  I took her to another vet who claimed it might be a parasite so I gave him a stool sample and I'm awaiting the results.  But after waiting for the results for a two days I don't think that it is a parasite.  She eats fine when I give soft food, yogurt, banana, rat food soaked in water and she seems to be gaining some of her weight back now that she is eating.  She just doesn't have the coordination to hold or chew hard food which probably caused the weight loss in the first place.

Could this be pituitary adenoma or perhaps a stroke?  Her symptoms again are, loss of coordination in front paws and slightly in back paws, bad balance, porphoryn around eyes and nose, general weakness, weight loss (may have been caused by inability to hold or eat hard rat food)

She definitely does not have any respiratory distress.  She got an hour of exercise every day before she got sick and was give fruit pieces in the morning, then at night some cooked broccoli or spinach and then a cup of rat food mix with lab blocks.

ANSWER:

You need a new vet(S)

Lucy has a pituitary tumor which is located on the base of her brain.
What is happening is there is pressure on the 8th cranial nerve which controls balance and coordination.  The first thing to go is the balance, second is the loss of the use of front paws followed by the back legs.  The worst part is when they can no longer swallow.
Give her baby food, allowing her to lick it from your fingers.
Steroids may help for a short time with inflammation on the nerves but unfortunately there is no cure and it is fatal.  


The vet that says he sees rats? He needs to read up on rat health care problems and pronto!! He can run all the tests in the world but this wont show up unless a necropsy is done.

Please use this URL below to find a vet that is good with rats. You are wasting your time and money on the other vets because it is obvious they are not educated on rat health problems at all.  A female rat that is past menopause age which is 18 months and also that is intact (unspayed) has a 75% chance of developing mammary tumors and pituitary tumors, both fueled by the rise in estrogen levels after menopause. An exotic vet should be aware of this as soon as she was examined. I am glad you did not spend any more money than you had to there. Let each vet know what is wrong with your girl so they can at least learn about this and maybe in the future they will not mislead someone else that brings their female rat in with these symptoms.

Otitis media (inner ear infection) mocks a pituitary adenoma but they do not lose the use of their paws or have problems chewing and swallowing. They will get head tilt and become dizzy and walk in circles but they improve on steroids and antibiotics over time.

I wish I had better news.

Here is the link to the association of exotic mammal vets. There is a drop down menu and you can do a search in your state for a qualified vet.  You can still take her in and have the new vet medicate her to make her comfortable but there is little else you can do but provide lots of love and nursing care.  

http://www.aemv.org/vetlist.cfm


keep me posted

Sandy


More detailed info on PTs here:


http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: How much discomfort will Lucy experience?  Would it be better to have her put down immediately or have her medicated by the vet and let her die naturally?

ANSWER:

I would not put her down right away, absolutely not, unless she cannot eat or drink any longer and just seems totally miserable.

I would have the vet give her something for inflammation to see if this may make a difference. It may help some which would be great!

Everyone is different, but I give my rats a chance to make the choice on their own unless they are suffering.

A good example is my rat, Holly. She was a wild rat I saved and trained. SHe had many surgeries to remove tumors even when she was 3 years old. She lost the use of her back legs and would propel around real fast on the bare plastic of the bottom of the single story cage she lived in as she fell ill.  She had spark in her eyes, ate like a champ when I fed her by hand because she could not hold her body up and hold her food at the same time. If someone from the outside saw her they would have thought I was so cruel to keep her alive but that was the thing, Holly was ALIVE.  SHe would smile at me from within, lick me, brux her heart out and boggle her little black eyes a million miles a minute. I bathed her with a warm cloth to help keep her bottom clean and that little girl even used her litter box propelling herself over to it and backing up into it to go potty in her litter.  She still had life in her and she liked her life, it was all she had left and I was not going to take it from her. I had her on steroids and antibiotics to keep infection away. One day she did not want to eat or come out of her house. I feared the worst. A few hours later I found her laying on her side in her food dish and she was very weak,could not even really lift her head up. It was time and she told me it was time. If I put her down months before that I would have missed out on our most intimate times we had together, bonding more than ever before. I enjoyed feeding her and wiping off her little face. After I put her to bed she would brux her heart out and fall asleep bruxing. This went on for months. I also had my vets support saying that she looked much worse than she felt and that as long as she was able to accept the way she was and work with her, leave her alone.
You will know when its time for Lucy to go. She will give up. She wont be able to swallow and probably will refuse food and water. At this point is when she should be let go, if she doesn't let go on her own. Most of my rats dont...and I hate that. I hate having to make the choice so I have learned to let them do it for me just by being in tune with the way they act. Its something no vet can tell their client...unless they are sure they are suffering like in a case with a rat with severe respiratory disease where they cannot breathe and that would be suffering if that were the case...but this is different.

Have you checked the AEMV to see about vets? I am curious if the vet that you went to that says he sees exotics is on that list. If he is I will just eat crow!!  

I feel bad telling you this and there is a slim chance I am wrong and it is something else, but I have seen this a million times over and she has every single symptom of a PT. :(   I just have to be honest with you or it would not be fair.

How is she doing tonight?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: She's doing as well as can be expected.  She eats well enough when I hand feed her and can stil walk around even if it is very slowly and she doesn't seem to be in any real pain.  Thank you for sharing your story about Holly with me.  I think you are right that Lucy will let me know when it is time for her to go.

I checked the two vets I visited and they were not on the list.  Tomorrow I am going to find a new vet and make an appointment for Lucy. Thank you for your help

Nic

Answer

Your very welcome, Nicholas.  I only wish I had something happier to tell you. Lets hope I am wrong. I have no problem being wrong, especially when it is something like this! Please keep me posted. I will be thinking of you both. Your a good rat owner. I can tell you love the little girl and she appreciates that you are helping her and making her comfortable just by making sure she is fed and hydrated and kept clean and dry.

Good luck to you both!

Sandra