rat being attacked by cage mate?

Question
QUESTION: Hi! I have a female rat named pippin, she's about a year and a half now, her sister died back in November so I decided to get her a new cage mate because she looked very down. So I got a new rat, Carmellow, back in November and she was just a baby so obviously pippin dominated her a lot. However calrmellow grew larger and is now dominating her. I've begun to notice the fur on the sides of pippin's neck and face thinning and upon looking closer i see a lot of scabs and fresh wounds. I'm not sure if shes over grooming or mites, but considering it's only in that spot and the rest of her is fine I doubt its something like that. Knowing that Carmellow and Pippin have a history of little tustles I've begun to think it's Carmellow attacking or grooming her harder than every before. (I've never seen pippin with cuts or scabs or external parasites ever) However I don't understand why Carmellow would be getting so violent now and didn't start this in the past. From what I am able to see their tussles seem to be like before, unless she hurts her when I don't see them, or maybe this has always been happening but now that pippin's fur is thinning it became visible?  What do you think? I don't want to separate them, but I of course don't want pippin to be killed or seriously hurt. Pippin herself is acting normal, which is another reason why I don't think it's a sickness or anything. Also if you do believe these cuts are from attacks is there anything I can put on the scabs to prevent infection that won't harm them if Carmellow or pippin tries to lick it off? Or should I bring pippin to a vet? I'm sorry this was a bit long, I just wanted to make everything as clear as possible as to what's going on. Thank you so much!

ANSWER: Oh my gosh, it's hard to really know on this one, even though you have given me thorough information.  You sound like you know quite a bit about rat behavior so you know it is quite normal for one rat to be the alpha.  In this case, the tables have turned and they switched roles, but that is not unheard of.

I'd be interested in knowing what size cage you are keeping them in.  Often, rats will become more aggressive if their space is too small and there isn't much room for them to roam without "bumping into each other" constantly.  If your cage is on the small side, you can consider upgrading to a significantly larger one, perhaps with at least 2 levels, if not 3.  Hang more than one hammock and put in several hiding places (like igloos) so that each of them can have their own and don't have to sleep together if they don't want to.  Also, if you get a larger cage, you can put in a wheel and other toys that can keep them busy so they may fight less.  Just some thoughts.  

Let me also ask you if you see them showing affection to each other during their mellow times (daytime mainly).  For example, do they snuggle and sleep together?  If so, they must like each other, and if so, I seriously doubt that Carmellow would do serious damage to Pippin.

Taking Pippin to a vet would be a good safety measure just to check for mites.  The vet might be able to tell what the source of the wounds are also.  I would not be able to answer that kind of thing over the internet.

Just a little story I'll share.  My first 2 female rats I had got along great, but one was very dominant over the other.  Although neither of them had wounds, one of them began to have excessive thinning of her fur around her face and legs.  After a while she looked like she had a mohawk!  This lasted for a good 4 months but eventually, the fur grew back.  I'd never witnessed overgrooming (barbering), but it probably happened during sleep times as they always shared the same hammock and I was always at work during that time so I have no evidence.  But this barbering might be going on with your girls also and maybe the wounds are a result of the excessive grooming rather than fighting.  

The only way you might know for certain is if you were to set up a camera 24x7 and playback what they do when you're not watching.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you a more affirmative answer but I hope I might have given you a few ideas to go on.  Good luck and let me know what happens.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi thanks for answering so quickly! The cage is 32X18X32 with three levels, tons of toys and a big wheel, it was meant for 3-4 female rats so i doubt space is the issue, though I guess there is a chance. They will sleep in the igloo together, but sometimes, more often than before, I find them sleeping on different levels. Like I said before Pippin was originally dominant, but than when Carmellow grew she started battling for dominance, and maybe pippin just doesn't want to give in? However, pippin doesn't even fight back or initiate any fights, it almost seems like shes being bullied a lot. I'm debating whether to buy a second smaller cage to separate them to prevent any kind of fatality, do you think that is a good idea at this point? If it is do you think it would be permanent or is there a way I can try to work with this so they can live together again? Like maybe have the cages by each other or something? (If I am around actively with them they won't fight so I don't think play time outside would change much of anything.) And lastly Pippin does seem to be a bit more itchy, but at this point I may attribute that to the scabs. Thanks again for your input! I'm just really worried about them! :)


Rattie Penthouse   ANSWER: I can totally understand your worry about them so I won't tell you not to, but I'll say again that I seriously don't think Pippin is in grave danger.  If you feel that in your heart they genuinely enjoy each other's company, even if they don't always sleep together, as long as they play together and enjoy each other for the most part, I would NOT separate them into 2 cages.  That would be cruel.  What would be the point then in having 2 rats if they can't be together right?

I still think it would be good to have a vet check Pippin out for mites and look at the wounds.

The cage you have for your girls sounds like a decent size, but even so, unless you give tons of free play time outside the cage, it is still small.  Think of yourself being confined to just a few rooms of your house for your entire life.  If you have a little more room in the area where you keep your rats, you can create a "Rattie Penthouse" like I did for my rats.  I'm attaching a picture of mine (I've actually expanded its size since that pic was taken).  I keep my rat cage on several adjoining tables and the cage door is always open so they can come in and out as they please.  On the table, I placed a wheel, tunnels, bridges, hideaways, and other toys, and even another mini cage with a hammock in it (I call it their "vacation house").  This way, my rats have plenty of room to roam around the table rather than being cooped up inside the cage.  

This kind of setup could even reduce the chances of your ratties scuffling.  Here's how you make it if you're interested:

- Go buy a simple inexpensive card table (or 2) from a Walmart or Target.  Typically, it measures about 34 inches square, so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a place in your home for it.  
- Next, go to a Home Depot or Lowes and have them cut 4 equal size pieces of plexiglass to the measurement of one side of the table.  For example if the table is 34 inches square, then have them cut 4 pieces that are 34 inches long and 2 inches wide.  Also buy some strong duct tape.  
- Next, use the duct tape to tape the 4 pieces of plexiglass to the 4 edges of the table, just so that about an inch or so is raised above the edge of the table, creating a kind of a border around the table.  This is so that your rats don't accidentally fall off the table.  

Please let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi thanks for the insight on the rats! I've been getting them out more often and trying to construct something like what you have in their picture so maybe Carmellow will be less of a bully towards pippin. My new issue is that I have discovered that Pippin has suddenly got bumblefoot! I work at a vet, and he looked at her and gave her cefa-drops.(Unfortunately he isn't an expert on rats, but figured the antibiotics would help once I explained everything) Shes .6lbs so it would be .12ml per dose, but what I was wondering was was should this be twice a day for 7-10 days or once a day? Along with the medication I'm soothing the soars with Epson salt and warm water as well as trying vetercyn which works like blu-kule only non toxic and a bit safer. Also, should I wait to see if external care helps before I start the antibiotics or should I start right away? Luckily I caught it early so I really want to prevent it from getting worse! Thanks!

Answer
I'm happy to hear you like my rattie penthouse setup.  I don't know any rat owners that do this sort of thing...I just one day devised this myself because I always feel so bad about keeping any kind of animal cooped up in a cage.

I'm not too knowledgable about meds for rats and usually get my info from a trusted source who does, but I would say that in order to prevent the bumblefoot from worsening, I'd stop the external care and just go straigt to antibiotics which have been proven to work.  

However, I'm not familiar with the cefa drops your vet gave you.  Tell your vet that that it has been recommended to you that he prescribe Trimethoprim-sulfa (enought for at least 10 to 14 days of treatment).  If you see that she is in obvious pain from from the bumblefoot, request that he prescribe Torbugesic as well, which a narcotic pain medication.

Hope this helps :)  Keep me updated on the progress of your ratties' relationship...I hope they can learn to live peacefully together in time.  As they grow older, they will certainly mellow out but hopefully you won't have to wait until then.