My rat has fluid in her lungs and shes not responding to antibiotics.

Question
QUESTION: Hi, How are you?
My rat Ginger has been wheezing on and off for a long time, I took her to the vet because she had a respiratory attack that made her feet turn blue.  The doctor said she has fluid in her lungs.  He put her on Cipro 3x a day for 2 weeks.  So far it's been a week and 2 days and she hasnt really shown any improvement.  (Maybe she has slightly improved, but I can't exactly tell since the wheezing has been on and off.)  Now, if this is a heart problem or pneumonia, is there any hope? Will she just get worse and worse?  She hasn't shown any lethargy or decrease in appetite.  She still grooms herself and acts normal.  I know the main cause of respiratory disease in rats is Mycoplasma, so if this was Myco would she still be wheezing with the meds?
        I have another rat with a mammary lump, and I havent gotten it biopsied yet.  It dosen't seem to be growing and dosen't seem to be causing her any problems, but I have a question:  If I get it biopsied, and it is cancerous, will the biopsy cause more harm right now than if I were to leave it alone?  For example, if the doctor breaks the skin can that cause it to spread? Of course if I think it will harm her I will have it removed, but Im just curious.
      Thank you so much, any help is greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,          
      Amanda

ANSWER: You need to either find another vet or tell this vet he is NOT treating your rat properly. He has pnenumonia and needs LASIX to get rid of the fluid, albuterol used via a nebulizer as well as baytril and steroids for inflammation of the lung tissue which should also be nebulized. Your rat needs put in oxygen while being treated so she doesnt have to exert herself much. The blue feet means your rat is cyanotic.  How old is she?  I cant believe the vet just used cipro and thats it.  I am, as usual, not shocked at the lack of poor quality in Vets when it comes to rats. If your rat isnt improved or showing improvement in 3 days its time for new medication. Also, two weeks is not nearly long enough to treat this.  Please read my website, sandyscrittercity.com.  You will probably learn more about rats than your vet knows by going to it. I have a number of diseases listed and how to treat them, including myco and even heart disease.  If she has myco, which most likely she has pneumonia caused by myco, yes, she can get well again but not the way she is being treated now, thats for sure.

As for the tumor and your rat, if the vet suggested a biopsy before surgery, again, this shows a total lack of knowledge.  Mammary tumors are almost ALWAYS benign and a biopsy is a total waste of money. have it removed or dont, depending on her age and health, but not by this Vet. I wouldnt trust him as far as I can throw him.

You need a new vet honestly. let me know your location and I can give you names of vets that have a clue.

Cipro and nothing more done for a rat that is cyanotic is just....pathetic.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------


Baby and Ginger   QUESTION: Hi,
Thank you so much. well, as of Monday it's been two weeks, so I called him that day and said I thought she might have shown slight improvement, (she seems happier, more relaxed, (she was a very timid and nervous rat)and is wheezing a little less, but I thought she needed to be on the cipro longer, so he gave me more, and I'm continuing it.  I just called the vet and he said he agrees with what you said, but that he would have to x-ray her first before giving her the meds because if she dosen't have fluid in her lungs it would dehydrate her.  He already said she did have fluid in her lungs though.  I guess you can't be sure just by listening...  Or can you?  Is he trying to rip me off, or would you do it without the x-ray?  Also, I know that Cipro and Baytril are the same medicine, but I've heard Baytril absorbs better in rats, so I asked the vet why he chose Cipro.  He said he dosen't think it absorbs any better than Cipro.  My rat is only one year and 2 months old. I am living in Staten Island, N.Y. and I am going to Northside Animal Hospital.

As for the tumor in the other rat, The vet I am going to now didn't suggest a biopsy... he said to either leave it alone or have it removed. By the way, the price he gave me for a minor tumor removal is $986.00!  Isoflourane anesthesia: $247.00, Histopathology: $175.00, Tumor removal: $330.00, radiology services: $195, pain management: $39.00.  Is that crazy?  The biopsy was a suggestion made by some other exotic vet I had called for a second opinion.

Thank you soo much.  I appreciate your help!

    Amanda

ANSWER: Wait...the vets at Northside want to charge you nearly $1000 for a simple tumor removal?  ARE THEY INSANE!?  

YES, they are RIPPING YOU OFF!  They dont care about YOU or your RAT. I am so peeved right now. The isoflurane should not cost any more than $50 for the tiny bit they will need and for the short amount of time it will be used. How IGNORANT!  I prefer the more pricey anesthesia, sevoflurane, which is about $30 more.... the HIGH side would be $100 for the gas. They are just ignorant as all hell about this.  The histopathylogy should not cost more than $100 and you can DECLINE this. Chances are its not cancer, they rarely are, and even if it is, so what? What are you going to do, chemo therapy on the rat for pete sakes!  I know some vets that will charge just $100 and others will charge $300, which is high, but $986 is just totally ignorant.

Also, the vets you are seeing may see exotics, but they are NOT certified exotic vets, no matter how much they say they are, they ARE NOT!

Here is where to call for REAL HELP!

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine
568 Columbus Ave.
New York NY 10024
Phone:  212-501-8750
Website: www.avianandexoticvets.com

*********
Second choice would be:

Karen Cantor, DVM
Westside Veterinary Center
220 West 83rd Street
New York, NY 10024
(212) 580-1800



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry to bother you, but thank you again, I really can't say how much I appreciate the help you've given me. I am definetly calling the other vets tomorrow ASAP.  About that price, Wow. I knew that that was just totally insane.  All I can say is WOWWW!  That really pisses me off too.  So, about that x-ray, is it really necessary?  Is it O.K. to just give the meds without knowing for sure if the fluid's there?  Does Baytril absorb better than Cipro?  The price he's giving me for the X-ray is $330.00.

Also, I will be going to Tampa Florida soon.  Do you know of any good vets around that area in case I take the rats with me?

Thank you again,

Amanda

Answer
$300 for an xray?  Do me a favor, tell them that they are NOT in this profession because they love animals, but they are in it for the almighty dollar. Even to xray a 70lb dog at a top notch facility it is NOT even near that price.  Just disgusting.
Yes you CAN give them lasix without an xray and a good vet that has a good ear can HEAR fluid in the lungs easily. Its not rocket science.  
I think I despise this place.

If the lasix doesnt work after the second time, stop using it. Push fluids or foods that contain liquids such as baby foods, crushed up melon like water melon (perfect season for it right now, too)

As for Tampa, your in LUCK, sweetie!  I live in SW Florida (Cape Coral-Fort Myers area) and if I had to have major surgery on my rats I would haul up to Tampa right to Dr.Teresa Lightfoot, who is a real honest to goodness board certified avian/exotic vet that has taught many top notch Vets what she knows.  However, the prices should be expected to be a bit more steep than a general Vet, but NOTHING like what the vet your seeing wants. Thats just rape of your wallet right there.  They need reported to the BBB.  Its almost like they are TRYING to get rid of you to be honest. Oh, and that vet is more of a raptor vet than small exotic companion mammal vet.

They suck. Tell them I said so and I will be sure to always tell everyone to steer clear of that place. They dont care about animals, they only care about their Mercedes in the drive way of their million dollar home.

Other vets in the Tampa area: This vet would be much more affordable than Dr.Lightfoot and its more realistic to see him. Of course, you cant see Dr.Lightfoot without having a referral anyhow so you would need to go through another vet first. The Vet below would be the perfect Vet for your needs as well. He is also a board certified avian/exotic vet, not just a vet saying they see exotics and trying to pass off being a formally trained DVM,ABVP vet (avian/exotic Vet)just because they went to a few workshops about exotics and have done a few successful operations on small exotic companion mammals. There is a HUGE difference. Please also refer to my website, sandyscrittercity.com and check out the page about Vets. Its listed on the index, about the 3rd of 4th page, I think. There is also tons of other information there about rat care so do check it out.

Dr. Peter Helmer, DVM, ABVP (avian/exotic Vet)
North Bay Animal & Bird Hospital
9801 West Hillsborough Avenue
Tampa, FL 33615
Phone: 813-885-4477
Fax: 813-885-7540
*********