PH too low

Question
QUESTION: Hello,

I have a 30g tank with 2inch Discus and 3 2 inch angels.
I know they like low PH, but it looks like my PH is below 6, that is what my test kit goes up to.
I wanted to add some small fish to the tank, not working they die in 2 hrs.
Also all other tests are normal.
I do water changes once a week, the only problem for some reason that i have with my current fish is that some fungus shows up in the eyes and fins, but goes away with a water change and some Jungle labs fungus med tablets.
What do you think the problem is?
I was able to do water changes before once every 2 weeks, until I developed a wide spread of fungus and had to use Maracyn by Mardel, about a month a go.

ANSWER: Hi David,

Are you by any chance using straight reverse osmosis water to fill your aquarium? If so, you cannot do this.

You need to add something such as Discus Essential (a Kent product) or Electro Right to add buffering to your water. This pH is probably much lower than the pH the fish are accustomed to in the store, so unless you are spending 1 hour + to acclimate them, and they are fish that can tolerate such a low pH (such as cardinals) then you are killing the small fish with pH shock. Read more here:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4492&Ntt=electro%2

Another thing is, you should not be using medication on a routine basis. Such acidic water likely has almost no buffering capacity, I believe your problems are that the water is too acidic, with dangerously low buffering capacity, leading to pH swings that are downright dangerous to your fish. Medication added to the water doesn't always have a detrimental effect on the biological filtration, but I believe you may have killed off some of your nitrifying bacteria with the Jungle products.

This is what I would do. If you are using RO water, stop using it. Your discus are very likely not wild caught and do not need special pH adjustments. Do water changes every two days with dechlorinated tap water, 15-20% at a time. Your tap water ought to have more alkalinity and hardness than RO water or bottled water (which is what I suspect you're using...I've never heard of tap water with a pH below 6) and will add back the buffering and alkalinity that the water is lacking. It will also dilute any nitrogenous waste (nitrite, nitrate) that may have accumulated in your water so far.

One water change a week is not really sufficient for sensitive fish like discus who thrive in really clean water, and do poorly in stale water. You should really change water at least twice a week, three times would be better. 50% at a time would not be too much - discus breeders change 90% daily for fast growth! If you are feeding typical discus breeding foods such as beefheart, know that this is highly polluting and not necessary for reliable growth. Discus do perfectly fine on New Life Spectrum pellets just for them. This is probably as close to a perfect food as possible.

Water changes once every two weeks is unheard of for the sensitive cichlids you keep in your aquarium! You also have way too many fish in there. Discus are the size of dinner plates as adults. I hope you're planning an upgrade soon, or that this is just a breeding tank. Keep in mind that discus often do not do well with gregarious angelfish. You really should dedicate your 30 gallon tank to just those two discus, it would make them a lot happier to have the extra space, and you would have room for dither fish such as cardinal or rummynose tetras, or maybe silver tip tetras.

So, in conclusion, change more water, use tap water with some buffering to it (a higher pH and alkalinity), do not use pH down products or anything of the sort at this point - stability is much more important than a "perfect" pH level - and stop using the medications. Water changes, water changes, water changes are the key to eliminating and preventing fungus and finrot. When my betta's fins were frayed, I averted finrot by doing 50% water changes daily. His fins have completely regrown and I never used medication. I simply raised the temperature to 80-82 F.

Another thing you can do to lower the pH of tap water naturally and gently is to use peat in the filter. Get some peat from the garden center (there are organic kinds, ensure there are no fertilizers or herbicides) and stuff it in a filter media bag in an area of high flow. An extra hang on back filter with a filter sock full of peat makes the water a beautiful amber color, and besides the pH lowering effects, tannic water has antimicrobial properties.

I hope that helps! Take care.
Nicole

This site has lots of info on South American cichlids:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you Nicole, that is a lot of info and all looks good.
I do use the water from the tap, I am in NY.
Maybe it is from the water conditioner that i use Ultimate by Hikari.
And i have an Aquaclear 50 with 3 media filters on the back of the tank.
I don't know why the PH is so low.
Is the low PH killing my good bacteria?
I do add some cycle sometimes.
What does Discus Essential do?

Thank you for all your help.



ANSWER: Hi again David,

Wow, that's some really soft tap water! What I would do is test the water right out of the tap and see what it's like. If the water in the aquarium is really far off from that, then maybe it is your water conditioner. Try switching to Prime from Seachem, it's considered the gold standard by many experts. You may have a piece of driftwood in there that's lowering the pH, but I would still suspect the water conditioner. Another one that works well is Aqua Safe by Tetra, but Prime is the easiest to dose - 2 drops per gallon makes tap water fish safe, neutralizing any chlorine, chloramine or heavy metals, and can be used to neutralize ammonia in an emergency. It's the dechlorinator I used before I moved into the country and onto well water.

I am fond of the AquaClears, but you ought to get some more filtration in that tank, cichlids are messy. Watch what you're feeding, too many meaty foods (bloodworms, flake with a high protein content) will pollute your tank awfully fast. Stick with New Life Spectrum pellets, they are extremely stable in water and very palatable for most cichlids. Look for the Discus formula. Use google.com or your favorite online pet store's search engine. It's nice to supplement with other foods, but just make sure they're not too high in protein - with a full (actually over-full) tank like yours, you want to keep pollution from food down to a minimum.

The bacteria don't thrive in these kind of conditions, it's true. Between the medicine and the low pH, I bet they're not at optimum levels right now. I recommend you get another filter, doesn't have to be an expensive one. I really like the Penn Plax line of canister filters. I got one for $50 and I absolutely love it. I can't see much difference between it and my Eheim Ecco (really expensive).  

Why don't you try running a high quality carbon such as ChemiPure? I usually don't recommend carbon in freshwater tanks, you don't usually need it and it's better to use the space for biological media, but in your case it sounds like it would help. Get a cheap hang-on back filter from Walmart and then stuff a $10 (or less) bottle of ChemiPure in.

You definitely don't need Cycle in your tank, just put it away - it has very limited usefulness, in spite of what it says. I would only use it in a new tank, period.

Discus Essential adds back trace elements to your water, it helps in a discus setup where the pH is artificially lowered. In your case, you don't need it because you are just using tap water. Baking soda might help in your situation. Try adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda per 10 gallons of aquarium water to your tank - so in your case, 3 teaspoons. Dissolve it in a cup of water first. It still sounds to me like your tank needs help with buffering. The baking soda won't last long, but it won't hurt, and if it seems to help, I would always add this much baking soda to your tank when you do your weekly (or more) water changes.

I hope that helps, feel free to write back if you have any more questions. I've never kept discus, by the way - I am just a voracious reader of all things fishkeeping! Reading is really the best way to become a better fishkeeper. Spend some time reading online every day, you'll be amazed by how rapidly you develop a knowledge base of information.

Take care,
Nicole

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for all your help Nicole, I checked the PH from my Tap water and it is at 7, as soon as I add the water treatment to it it goes to 7.5, after i add the 50% water to the tank the tank reading of PH for some reason is 6 or below.
Maybe because of the meds used 2 days a go.
I am doing the water changes as you said and now using Prime.
regarding the new water filter,  Penn Plax line of canister filters come in a larger size like the 1000 model, should i just switch to the can filter and remove the aquaclear side filter?
What do you think and what is the best way to swich?
the 1000 model of the can filter is 2 times the output of the aquaclear 200 that i have.
What is the best media to use in the can filter for angels and discus.

Answer
Hi again David,

Medication does tend to make your tank more acidic. You should not need to medicate a tank with any sort of frequency. Unless the fish you bought brought in some "bugs" (like ich or columnaris, which is contagious) there may be a problem with your aquarium that goes beyond just the pH issues. There shouldn't be ammonia in your tank, but nitrites - even if they're low - might be an issue. Nitrates are the end process of the nitrogen cycle, so a buildup of these indicates not enough water changes. Nitrites in the water, however, point to insufficient biological filtration.

I recommend you buy a canister filter and use it in conjunction with the AquaClear (AC). You can get the 1000, that would be fantastic, but I have had fine results with the 500, their smallest model, and I use it in conjunction with an AC 50/200. Your tank has a much heavier bioload than mine, so I would recommend the 700 for you. Here's a few reviews of the filter, if you haven't seen them already:
http://www.fishlore.com/ER_PennPlax_Cascade.htm
http://www.aquahobby.com/products/e_cascade2.php

What you can do is take the Biomax from the AquaClear and add it to the Cascade just to get it colonized with beneficial bacteria. I only use reusable filter media, because it's the cheapest and most efficient option. My AC has two foam sponges and one Biomax bag. That's it. Don't discontinue your other filter - it's good to have what they call redundancy, so that both sides of the aquarium have flow and so that one works in case the other fails. Sort of the same practicality that tells you to buy two heaters and put them on either side of the tank, not just one.

I would use the micron filter pads that come with the filter, until they are dirty, and then throw them out, and the same with the bag of carbon. There is no need to keep replacing it, and replacement media for the Cascade filters is rather expensive. I sometimes buy a big bottle of activated carbon and use filter bags (or pantyhose in a pinch) but the two best kinds of chemical filtration, in my opinion, are Purigen and ChemiPure. Purigen polishes the water absolutely clear, but ChemiPure does more to neutralize waste and organics in the water. Purigen doesn't last very long in a tank with a heavy bioload, it turns deep brown in less than a month in my overstocked 55 gallon African cichlid tank. ChemiPure keeps working for a couple of months. It's a high quality granular activated carbon with some ion-exchange resins (whatever that means) that allow it, seemingly, to work much longer and better.

So, if you can afford disposable media, it's always a plus. I just can't really afford it, but when I can, those two are my picks. In your case, I would go with ChemiPure.

For biological filtration in the canister, you can either buy Ehfisubstrat (type that into Google.com) or use the ceramic rings that Penn Plax themselves sell, or you can use a big bag of Biomax...personally I prefer the ceramic media not to be hollow, it traps too much detritus. My favorite are the little ceramic balls that Eheim makes called Ehfisubstrat. They rinse clean and work just fine.

I hope that helps! Take care.
Nicole