Fancy Goldfish - Dont know how to proceed

Question
Hello,

I don't even know where to start.  But here goes, I bought 3 adult fancy goldfish from a not-so reputable place.  I bought them because they didn't look well, so I thought I would try to nurse them back to health.  The 3 are named: BigHead, Yawny and Sid.  I have a 10g tank.  I  know that is only good for 1 fish but I have two 20g carbon filters and do 25% water changes each week.  All was well; they have been alive and happy with me for the last 3 months.

I went away for 2 weeks.  My boyfriend was taking care of the babies.  He called me the first day I was away saying that Sid had white spots on his head.  He said he was going to treat for Ich and instructions on the bottle said to take out filter.  After 4 days, he called again and says that BigHead was sitting at the bottom of the tank.  Sid still had white spots and Yawny was just floating in mid-tank.  To make an extremely long story short.  When I got home, he made a 100% water change, bought new gravel and cleaned the filters.  Stopped Ich treatment because Yawny turned blue from Ich medicine.

I went to an aquarium experts store and they told me things that made my heart sink (body slime loss, new tank syndrome).  They sent me home with bacteria and salt.  I added salt once and been adding 2 capfuls of bacteria for the last 2 days.  Sid died yesterday.  I am very sad because I feel like I nursed them back to health to only have them die.  

BigHead and Yawny are still alive.  But barely.  Good news is BigHead is not at the bottom of the tank anymore and Yawny is not as blue-stained anymore.  But both are listless and dorsel fins down; tails still open.  I stopped feeding them for the last 2 days.  But I just checked ammonia level in tank and it is at 4.  Yawny was looking really bad, started floating on his side.  I dechlorinated some tap water in a bucket, mixed with tank water, let it sit and put Yawny in there.  He is upright now.  Ammonia level in bucket is 2.  He was in the bucket overnight.  

What do I do?  Do I take BigHead out and put him in bucket too?  Or do I put yawny back in the tank?  Are they listless because they are hungry?  Do I take them out and do a fishless cycle and them put them back in?  The cycling will take forever and what do I do with them in the bucket?  I don't want to keep shocking them by moving so often.  I'm so sad about Sid and I have no idea what to do now.

Please advise.
Elle

Answer
Hi Elle:  What has happened is that you have had a fish illness and the treatment for the illness has made the tank unsafe.  The chemicals in the water are too high to have healthy fish.  Here is what I would do. First I would correct the the water chemistry without stressing the fish.  Step one: You need to feed your fish in fact overfeed your fish.  They need their energy to survive this.  STEP TWO: Put BIGHEAD in the bucket and  do about a 50% water change in the tank while the goldfish are in the bucket and add bacteria and aquarium salt to the tank.  You need to add the carbon filter back to the tank... if you did not remove the filter during medication the filter will have absorbed all or most of the medication and thus should be thrown out.  You also received extremely bad advice from the fish store. New tank Syndrome does not make fish sick... at least not usually and adding bacteria to a tank only helps to control the chemical balances in the water.  Tomorrow you need to do another 30% water change and test your water chemistry... add bacteria.  Test the water chemistry and report back to me.  If you can not get through ... you can post me a message in the feedback area.  dave

Hi Dave, I appreciate your feedback. I'm so confused. I'm getting told different things. The aquarium experts are saying to just leave them in the tank and do not feed them because it will just add to the ammonia level. And that they can do without food for a week. (This is Day 3 with no food.) They say that the ammonia spiked up because it was a new tank and also because Sid died. But to leave it because nitrites will soon kick in and then the nitrates and then stability. And only when the environment is stable should I treat for other ailments. But I seek comfort in your advice, because it makes sense to do a 50% water change when the ammonia is at 4. I would feed them but the last time I tried to feed them (3 days ago) they were not interested. Since the 100% water change (3 days ago), we have had new gravel and new filters. Again, I don't mean to be skeptical, but I should do 50% water change, put fish back in and then remove them again tomorrow and do a 30% water change, test the ammonia and then get back to you?


Hi Ella: The experts are partially correct the tank will fix itself but the thing to consider is that the fish wont live much longer in a tank where the ammonia is off the chart. 4 is too high for fish to live in for very long.  The other thing to consider here is cause and effect:  the tank is three months old... that it too long to be a new tank  and yet it is possible for tanks to start the cycling process again.  The experts at the fish store are talking to you about the nitrogen cycle but that process can take up to a month to complete...sometimes less.  So when I read your questions I ask myself what could cause this or that and in your case this is what I see.  I see a tank that was healthy enough to nurse sick fish back to health.  I see that when the treatment for ich did not work that the fish got sicker.  I see that the chemical levels in your tank are high and unsafe.  When I ask myself what would cause these events?  What I have determined is that you have gotten good advice but for the wrong situation.  The fish have a fungal infection not a bacterial infection nor a parasitical infection.  The med for ICH, the antibiotic, etc did not work and the fish got sicker.  This is because the fish were treated for the wrong illness.  They need a specific type of fungal med.  The chemical imbalance in the water is due to the treatment of the fish... ie no filter while treating with medication.  Goldfish are messy fish and they are in too small of a tank. So without proper filtration the chemical imbalance will continue to grow.  The only choice you have is a water change and several of those will help... the medication has killed off the beneficial bacteria so there is nothing in the tank to combat the ammonia, etc.  The fish are not being fed because that will contribute to the ammonia... but the fish are not getting better and one has died.  

The deal is this.  The fish need to eat to keep up their immune system without food the disease will take its toll faster.  You cannot correct the water chemistry because you need to medicate the fish.  Your only choice now is to continue to do water changes and medicate the fish while they are in the bucket.  or do a 50% water change followed by a 30% water change the next day.  If your fish are still alive tomorrow... you will need to get them medication and please start to feed them as soon as possible.  healthy fish do not get sick and the best way to keep your fish healthy is with a great diet.  Stress and lack of food will cause illness in healthy fish just like it will in humans.   keep me posted