Box Turtles, Part II

Question
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Followup To
Question -

Hello again Mark!

Thank you so much for the quick and VERY informative reply to my previous question below. When this site calls itself "All Experts", they're not kidding with you on board! Thanks for investigating Turtlesale.com for me.

I've decided to go with a pet store turtle, but I do have two more questions for now. One regarding Salmonella and one on "wild caught" turtles.

1. For some reason I thought water turtles were the candidates for Salmonella. If a box turtle has it, is there anything I can do about it and how can I protect myself and other pets from getting it?

2. Do you know how and where box turtles are caught in the wild? I've never seen a box turtle in the wild and wonder where one would go to capture one. I know it must be traumatic on the turtle and I'm concerned.  

Thanks again,
Amber   


Hi Mark,

I would like to get a box turtle. Would you suggest purchasing one from a pet store, or through a breeder? I have heard pros and cons about both. I understand pet store turtles may be infested with parasites, but its more caring to "rescue" one there as it will probably be let go in the wild if it doesn't sell, or just die from illness in the store.

I found a website called Turtlesale.com on the internet and they ship hatchlings from Florida. A turtle rescuer I know said this would be a terrible idea because shipping and climate acclimation is stressful on the turtle. Plus, the public should not support breeders. Any opinions you can share?      

Thank you,
Amber
California
Answer -
I was going to launch into a long, rambling 'shop vs. breeder' rant, but let's simplify this.

Boxies are cheap turtles. There is no logic in paying a shipping charge that is equal to the cost of the turtle if the species is locally available.

IF you have a reliable breeder you liked working with, then maybe it would make more sense, but if you get it from a local store, you get to hand-select YOUR turtle, pay a lower overall price, and probably get some sort of warranty that will be easier to deal with than a Floridian seller would be.

Parasites? Heck, that is the least of your problems and pretty easy to deal with. Pet shop turtles are often mis-fed, have some contact disease from other customers (usually repiratory), likely to have Salmonella, etc. On the other hand- breeder turtles can have all of this as well.

You should ALWAYS consider ANY new animal as contaminated and infectious and treat it accordingly- quarantine and simple health care at first.

Rescuing ANY animal from a pet store simply encourages the shop owner to keep stocking that animal- they don't care if you keep it or let it go since they made their money!

(Pet shop owners KNOW that the most pitiful animal in a cage often sells first. Unscrupulous keepers use this to their advantage. I hate to say it, but it is best to let the animal die in the store- that way the keeper is less likely to buy more of them UNLESS you can negotiate a rock-bottom price for an obviously ill animal and have the skill to help it.)



Now, I just went to www.turtlesales.com and I have a few concerns...

1. The 'lagoon islands' they sell are terrible for baby turtles which need at least 5 gallons of water to swim in for proper exercise and shell development.

2. They advertise Ornate box turtles as 'ideal starter turtles' and Ornates are one of the tougher boxies to keep well in captivity. Eastern/Carolinia boxes (Terrepena carolina) or Three Toed boxes (T. c. triungus) are much better.

3. The prices, even with S&H are pretty high.

4. The 'live animal' guarantee only covers 'arriving' alive, no 30 days or other periods.

5. Lots of typos, poor grammer, etc.

6. The care sheet is poorly written, unhelpful, focuses on selling their products, and in a few places is wrong.

7. Something about the 'free baby red-eared slider' with orders over $100 seems very odd- why would a person ordering a tortoise or boxie WANT a pond turtle?

8. I cannot find ANY indication warning that baby turtles are illegal in many places.

This is MY OPINION, and I am not trying ot badmouth the folks, but I would buy from a local seller instead.

Answer
Salmonella:
This is a hazard with any reptile and it comes from unsanitary conditions. You can find tons of info online about it, but some basics would be...

1. It is basically the same thing as 'stomach flu'. Most people over 13 have had it. It is only really dangerous if a.) you are weakend somehow (already ill, very young, very old, etc.) or b.) if it is one of a few rare strains that is more dangerous- not often found in live animals.

2. A basic routine of handwashing and cage cleanliness will be all you need for most situations, even water turtles.


Wild-caught box turtles:
These are generally caught by hand (picked up off the road most often) or 'trapped' in simple and reasonably humane ways- most often a fence is created that 'herds' them into a sort of corral. Many people get paid to collect wild animals (usually a buck or so each for the box turtle) and they can be very destructive- poor animal care, 'strip mining' individuals too heavily from one territory, etc.

Many states have rules against this, but most of those states also have probelms with enforcement.

The 'where' is easy- any place there are a lot of them. Ornates used to come from Nebraska, South Dakota, etc. I don't know where the big sources are right now- that changes as the laws change.

The turtle is not heavily stressed if the collector takes decent care of it, but some collectors just dump them in a box and don't do anything for them at all.

HOWEVER- there is also a growing number of breeders who are supplying the shops with captive bred animals, so your pet store could be getting it from either source.