New Red Footed Tortoise

Question
QUESTION: Hi,
We added male red footed tortoise to our family 5 days ago.  He is about 8" long and 4" wide.  I have him set up (temporarily) in a lg dog crate (42"l x 28"w x 31" h) with a large x pen outside of the crate so he can roam.  I lined the crate with an old bath rug covering it with cypress mulch.  He has a card board box with a door cut out for a hide, a water and food bowl.  He is fed collard greens, dandilion greens, watercress and hibiscus leaves and flowers.  There is a basking bulb hanging 8" above the bottom of the crate.  The crate set up is only during the early evening and at night.
During the day he is set up in an area that is 8' x 5'.  It is part hibiscus hedge and grass.  I check on him every 30 minutes to see what he is up to and make sure he is ok.  The kids take him out to roam free in the yard 2x a day for at least 20 minutes each time.  He is in the outside pen area from about 9:00 am until 5:00 pm.  We live in S.Fl so there is plenty of sun and humidity.  The area is against the house so he has plenty of options for shade, to dig, and to get direct sunlight.
Marley was much more curious when we first got him, he loved to walk around and explore now he just tries to find a place to hide.  He is still eating and he did poop.  At the pet store he was with a yellow footed tortoise, could he be missing his friend? Oh, during his free time he tries to eat dog poop.  We of course discourage this but he has eaten some, is that ok? The kids and I just want him to be happy and healthy.
Also, any suggestions for a night time indoor enclosure and ideas for a great outdoor pen would be appreciated.  I am trying to draw up some plans for our handy man.

Thank you!

ANSWER: Hi Margaret,

If night temperatures stay about 60 degrees, he can stay outside overnight.  Providing a dog house filled with hay for him to sleep in would work just fine.  When weather is colder, he should stay inside (with heat/UVB lamp), but an indoor enclosure doesn't have to be huge since he'll be able to stay outside most of the time.  If you can, you might considering building a small shed for outdoors that has electricity running to it so you can provide heat for him.  In that case, on chillier days he could stay out in his shed.  This would probably be the optimum solution if you can do it.

I'd make the outdoor pen a decent size--10' x 10' if you can.  Plant it with plenty of cover--hostas, dandelion, chicory, hibiscus, strawberry plants, etc.  Add in bark and logs, and a small mulch pile of rotting leaves, and your tortoise will be able to do considerable forging for himself.

You do need to tweak his diet a bit.  The greens you're feeding are fine, but you can add in turnip greens, mustard, kale, spring mix (not too much lettuce), etc.  Redfoots are omnivores, so you also need to be feeding fruit a few times a week (anything but citrus or pineapple), veggies (peppers, mushrooms, squashes, carrots, tomatoes), and some animal protein.  Limit the animal protein to once a week; it can include pinky mice, boiled chicken/egg/shrimp, worms, superworms, cooked fish, etc.  He will also catch his own insects, and will love any snails or slugs you can toss in.  

Tortoises are solitary, so don't form friendships.  If he remains lethargic and especially if his appetite drops, I would take him to a herp vet for an exam and fecal check.  At his size, he is almost certain wild-caught, and may have parasites.  Otherwise, his behavior could be due to temperatures, weather, and so forth.  As long as he is eating well I wouldn't worry too much.

One last caution:  keep him from eating dog poop.  Not only is there a possibility of him picking up parasites, but if your dogs are treated with an ivermectin heartworm preventative (Heartgard is the major brand), he could become quite sick and possibly die.  Ivermectin is highly fatal to tortoises, and is excreted in dog feces.

For more information, see:

http://redfoottortoise.com/
http://tortoiseyard.com  

Please post back if you need more help, and enjoy your tortoise!  

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Jeannie,
Thank you for your fast and thorough response.  I do have plenty of room to build Marley a 10 x 10 pen, thank you for your suggestions as to plants etc to put in it. Does the pen need alot of full sun?  The area I am thinking is partially shaded by the house and a large tree.  It is damper than the other areas of the yard due the shade and ac.  My orchid plants love it back there so I know there is some sun.  I have read that Red foots love to wallow.
 The weather here (South Florida) rarely gets below 60's, it is usually in the 70's but I am afraid to leave him outside due to predators.  I have been bringing him in late afternoon but can leave him out until 9:00 or so and put him back outside around 7:30am.  If I do that, is the large dog crate adequate? He goes directly in his "house" and lays down.  
This morning Marley was poking his head out around 8:00 looking for food I think.  That is the time my son has been putting his greens in his bowl.  He then "walks" Marely in the backyard freely for about 30 and then puts Marley in his outdoor pen.  Marley is then "walked" again when my daughter gets home. (the kids have different drop off and pick up times so they split pet duties)
How much should I be feeding Marley a day?  I have read conflicting advise.  How old do you estimate Marley is?

Thanks so much Jeannie.

ANSWER: Hi Margaret,

No, the pen doesn't need a lot of sun.  As long as there is a basking area for most of the day, it's fine if the rest of the pen is shaded.  Many redfoots like to hang out under plants and such anyway.  Since it's so warm where you are, there isn't a need for a whole lot of sun to warm the pen.  They do like mud and wallowing--I forgot to mention that earlier.  Moisture is very important.

If you have predators--especially raccoons--then it would be better to bring him inside at night unless he has a secure night shelter.  If you are bringing him in at night, you really don't have to provide a shelter for him.  He will find his own places to rest, and the temperatures are warm enough that he won't get too cool before you bring him in.  If you want him to have a shelter during the day, a dog house/crate would be just fine.

A good rule of thumb for feeding is enough for 20 minutes of eating a day.  Marley is an adult, so if you need to skip a day here and there it isn't going to cause any harm (although he might be offended, haha).

There's no way to say for sure how old Marley is, but at his size he's certainly mature, so probably at least 10 years old.  Just to check--are you certain he's male?  Males have a long thick tail, and some concavity to their plastron (bottom shell).  Some males have a "pinched" look to their shells so they look like they have a "waist."  Here's a link to pictures:  http://redfoottortoise.com/redfoot_tortoise_breeding.htm.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Jeannie,

Thank you again for your prompt reply.  Marley is getting a bit more curious and when I gave him chicken tonight he devoured it with his tomatoes.

Yes, I am certain he is male, not only from the pet store but from your description and those on the internet.  The bottom of his shell is concave and his tail looks just like the pictures you sent.  That is about the only accurate info I was given.  They said Marley was a sub adult,maybe 5 years old.  I failed to ask where he came from assuming he was bred in captivity.  I will definitely go back and ask for more info.  We are in that store all the time due to the kids' fish tanks.

How large do red foots get?  I was told 12" to 15" and about 35 to 40lbs.  Marley is not where close to that size or weight.

How deep  and high does the perimeter of his outdoor pen need to be?  I do not want him digging out or climbing over.  He really is a cool little guy and we have grown quite fond of him.

Thank you again!

Answer
Pet stores in general usually don't know much about tortoises.  The reason I think he was wild caught is because it would take a considerable amount of time to raise a redfoot to adulthood, and wholesalers aren't interested in keeping animals long-term.  The pet store probably doesn't know any more than what they told you, which really wasn't as inaccurate as usual.  It seems that all pet stores insist that their Russian tortoises (obviously wild caught adults) are between six months and a year old!  It's possible that Marley is only five years old, but unlikely because they grow slowly in the wild and males mature at about 6".  Let's figure somewhere between 5-10 years (but could be older).  There's just no way to know for sure without a hatch date.

Redfoots can get up to about 15" in length, sometimes bigger, but that would be unusual.   I don't know how much they can weigh, exactly, but I'd guess about 25 lbs. Again, bigger would be unusual, but possible.

I answered your question about the enclosure in another post.  : )